My internet access has somehow gone out at home so I can’t moderate what is turning into an angry exchange (as all of these discussions do, alas).

I owe responses to Question Marks and AIG which I’ll provide tomorrow. In the meantime, everyone take a break, or go comment on the other post. This one is shut down for now. Thanks.

Thanks for the free lesson in psychology. It is a profound statement about lack of a coherent argument and continued state of denial.

Yonatan Amir #85 & #86

I do not believe that describing a situation amounts to personal attacks, venomous or otherwise. It would be useful to all if you were to identify such ‘personal attacks’.

As to the not-so-subtle threats, it is yet another reflection of one detached from reality, and resorting to intimidation.

Does it really matter if we were Lebanese or not? We could very well be disenchanted Israelis. After all, it is the ideas that count.

Regards

Don’t expect any Lebanese to say: Wait a moment, perhaps we are responsible for rockets fired from our territory and the Israelis have a right to defend themselves? This natural reaction for you or me seems to be alien to the majority of Lebanese.

You see, the only way for the Lebanese not to have another civil war is to be irrational. Because if they were rational, they would have had to forcefully confront Hizballah and that would have been catastrophic for Lebanon. Therefore, they need to rationalize the irrational.

There is only one party responsible for the death of any civilian in Lebanon and that is Hizballah. You attack our country and then whine about your country getting bombed and your people dying? Take care of Hizballah or don’t complain. You can’t have it both ways.

You guys are just lucky that Israel does try to minimize civilian deaths unlike the Lebanese who proved their ruthlessness in the civil war. The cluster bombs were an unsuccessful attempt to stop the short range rockets. With hindsight they were ineffective and shouldn’t have been used because of their persistence after the war. But let me be very clear, IF the cluster bombs were effective it would have been wise to use them. Since the outcome was not known, the usage was justified.

I care about human lives, but naturally I care about Israeli lives more than I care about Lebanese lives. The first responsibility of the state is for the security of its own people.

And for those that don’t understand that Israel held back in 2006, I guess they will learn only after the next war. But don’t blame Israel, we told you exactly what would happen. If you want to take your chances, tfadal. And we know about the Hizballah rockets and what they can do. That is why every house in Israel has a shelter or safe room. A war will cause damage in Israel, but it will be the end of Lebanon as a modern country. On the other hand, Israel will quickly rebuild and be as strong as ever.

Alas, this is the essence of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Our expectations of the future are so different. The Arabs constantly underestimate Israel’s strengths and durability and so they test it and then pay the consequences. Oh, well. Some people only learn the hard way.

Yes, writing blogs and comments on them is no more than frivolous entertainment, at least for me. Do you really think you are helping Lebanon with your blog or that I am in any way trying to help Israel? I just enjoy exchanging views with people that disagree with me.

Seriously, what is your view of how you want Lebanon to look and what are you doing to further it?

Quite typical. A propaganda that flimsy is a reflection of desparate attemp at denial.

PN expressed a universal sentiment very eloquently.

I will add for the record: over 1000 Lebanese civilians murdered, tens of thousands of civilian homes flattened, nearly 30 bridges connecting the country destroyed, 3 plants for generating electrical power disabled, UN facilities, especially those hosting children, women and old folk targeted, 1000lb bombs used to shell inhabited areas …!

How many Israeli civilians died in comparison with the number of Israeli soldiers? How many home completely destroyed?

No, the Israeli army embraces the concept of ‘honour in arms’. In fact, this is the concept that was used to ‘great’ effect in Gaza.

Regards

“As someone who participated in the latest Lebanon conflict, I assure you we tried very hard to kill AS FEW Lebanese as possible.”

YA,

I did not want to dignify such a comment with a reply, but since QN was soft on you with his reply, I could not help it; just in case some uninformed reader of this blog takes your comment at heart.

So, by showering us with FOUR MILLION bomblets in 34 days, you REALLY expect us to believe that “you tried to kill as few Lebanese as possible”?

Much of these cluster bombs, famous for the “Drop Today and Kill Tomorrow” strategy, were dropped in the last few days of the war; i.e. after UN resolution 1701 was drafted and was on its way to implementation by the powers at be in our civilized world, AND right before the estimated 800,000 Southern Lebanese were getting ready to go back to camp in their backyards while their flattened homes get rebuilt.

Should you have no remorse on participating in such a conflict and possibly having our kids blood on your hands, then PLEASE spare us your fake attempt to come across as if you care about our lives.

WE REALLY DO NOT CARE.

The greatest rights are for (1) Israeli citizens that reside in Judea and Samaria – they can carry guns and can shoot, steal and cause mayhem as the mood takes them and normally expect, as citizens, to be protected by the Israeli state; then there are (2) Israelis with full citizenship rights who live within the ’67 borders;(3) then there are Israeli and Golani Druze – they have almost the same rights as the second group; (4) then there are Israeli Muslims and Christians – the Palestinians that often got internally displaced in 1947-48 fighting but found themselves within the ‘Green Line’ at armistic ’49 – sure the Israeli state in a majority of cases denied them the right to live on their own land in their own villages, but they do enjoy Israeli citizenship; Then there are (5) Israeli ID holding Arab Jerusalem residents; (6) then there is the Gaza residents – they experience food and medicines and aviation and ports embargo, which is not so good, but they don’t have to contend with the risk of armed Israeli settlers round their villages and camps; and finally there are Class Category 7 Persons – the Muslim and Christians in the West Bank – subjects of the binational state, their daily lives under the authority of the sovereign Israeli government, but having no citizenship rights and subject to the armed attacks not only of the State but also of the Israeli citizen-settlers that are underfunded by the State that cause planned and random mayhem for them.

All of this is lawful in the sense that that is what the constitutional working arrangements are within the binational state.

Of course a state like that finds a place like Lebanon an existential threat – if Lebanon, with Right of Return to 18 confessional/ethnic groups and is based on a compact of compromise – rather than a mixture of ethnic expulsions, land-stealing and Berlin Walls – if Lebanon succeeds and makes a go of a multiethnic society, then of course that undermines the moral and political basis of the project south of the border.

So of course every now and again Lebanon is going to be bombed and smashed up because it represents resistance and a more federalist alternative.

And so yes there will be another war on the Lebanese – and yes there will be more settlements and violence in the WestBank too – the challenge for Lebanon and the Lebanese is not to get so brutalized and bitter that Lebanon becomes like the adversary.