Syria

Satire & the Syrian Revolution

As it so happens, there are other things one can do with a camera phone during a revolution besides filming gun battles.

I recently arrived late to a very good party, the party of Jiim Siin’s brilliant and wickedly satirical monologues about the Syrian uprising. Recorded on an iPhone by an anonymous Syrian fellow living in the diaspora, the series entitled وقائع طنجرة الضغط (“Chronicles of the Pressure Cooker”) is a collection of short audio clips of sketches, political allegories, and satirical musings on the revolution. You can listen to the entire series on his blog.

Among my favorites:

What I love about these clips is the language: a rich, pungent, evocative vernacular… basically colloquial poetry. Yes, I know I’m getting carried away, but I can’t really think of a more creative response to the situation than this.

I got in touch with Jiim Siin via Twitter. He tells me he was inspired by Arabic radio programs and by Monty Python’s Flying Circus, “for the absurdity…” His weekly missives bring to mind Jacques Barzun’s famous definition of decadence: “When people accept futility and the absurd as normal, the culture is decadent. The term is not a slur; it is a technical label. A decadent culture offers opportunities chiefly to the satirist…

In Jiim Siin, the Syrian revolution has a very talented one indeed.

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Discussion

827 thoughts on “Satire & the Syrian Revolution

  1. Gabriel,

    “If there are other non-religious activities boxes that you need to tick.. you have yet to mention them. ”

    Wrong again, check above, these were the first things I mentioned. For example learning Hebrew. Look at comment 541.

    “So why “might” this Certificate be a “Good Indication” that you are Jew? ”

    Now you are again being difficult and argumentative. Isn’t it obvious that most people would not go through the large hassle of conversion if they were not serious about becoming Jews or are already Jews?

    “And I also agree that the conflation of those two concepts is what makes it difficult for you to argue your position cohesively.”

    Since I gave you a simple definition that does not involve neither genes nor faith, your observation is of course bogus. You just can’t understand the definition.

    “In Peace, Israel lived by the Might is Right principle.”

    False again. There is no peace until both sides want peace and after the war in 67 the Egyptians did not want peace.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khartoum_Resolution

    After the war, Egypt continued with the same attitude as before the war.

    Posted by AIG | April 25, 2012, 6:49 pm
  2. AIG:

    #541 was not listed as activities that get you the certificate. Only items that prove to you- an atheist- that I am willing to tie my destiny with that of the Jews.

    Isn’t it obvious that most people would not go through the large hassle of conversion if they were not serious about becoming Jews or are already Jews?

    No- it’s not obvious. What if someone genuinely (for whatever reason) felt that he ties in with your historical reality, as a Jewish Nation, as a Jewish Peoples, but who doesn’t “believe” in deities have to- in your mind- go through the process of pretense to get this Rabbinical Certificate? It doesn’t make sense to me.

    The fact that you are so very strongly correlating the process of “becoming” “Jews” to specific religious actions, then that means whether advertently or not, you believe that the faith element is a critical part of being a “Jew”.

    Since I gave you a simple definition that does not involve neither genes nor faith, your observation is of course bogus. You just can’t understand the definition.

    No- you didn’t give me a definition yet that involves neither Genes nor Faith… Your definition is an emotional one- not a practical one: State of Mind- like love.

    Your practical definition- getting the certificate is tied specifically to FAITH (unless you get it under false pretence).

    Or Genes: By being born of a Jewish Mother.

    The strict and true defintion that you believe to define a Jew is something that can never ever be proven by anyone.

    False again. There is no peace until both sides want peace and after the war in 67 the Egyptians did not want peace.

    We are not talking about Peace. The discussion was on the Strait of Tiran. ISrael’s position in times of “Peace”, by which I mean the state of No Physical War, is that it got to define the practical terms of the Armistice. It did not in fact go, sit down with Egypt and agree to take “permission” to use the Strait of Tiran.

    It essentially told Egypt. You want an end of being B&$ch-Slapped by our Mighty Military… then you better keep that Strait Open. Or Else we Will Bomb the Crap out of you.

    So please stop this non-sense. Stop saying that Egypt “agreed” to the terms of the Armistice. Stop saying that Egypt had any practical say in “renegotiating” the terms of the Armistice.

    And just come out clean, and say that in practical terms… beginning with the Armistice agreement… Israel shoved its terms down Egypt’s throat. Or in other words…. it LIVED by the Might makes Right principle.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 25, 2012, 7:34 pm
  3. Gabriel is THE MAN!!

    Posted by dontgetit | April 25, 2012, 10:41 pm
  4. Gabriel is THE MAN!!

    Why? For being obnoxious?

    AIG’s explanations are not difficult to comprehend (for those that have even the slightest open mind).

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 26, 2012, 7:21 am
  5. No- it’s not obvious. What if someone genuinely (for whatever reason) felt that he ties in with your historical reality, as a Jewish Nation, as a Jewish Peoples, but who doesn’t “believe” in deities have to- in your mind- go through the process of pretense to get this Rabbinical Certificate? It doesn’t make sense to me.

    Gabriel,

    My ex-wife’s, brother’s father-in-law lives near Jerusalem. He was born in Belgium as a Christian. He married an Israeli/Jewish/Moroccan woman and converted to Judaism. He is not religious at all and he may not even believe in God. He is a staunch Likudnik, pro-Israel, successful, and speaks fine hebrew. He is an Israeli Jew.

    This is one of thousands of examples of a person who became an Israeli citizen without the “required” (only in your mind) background of “genes” or “faith”.

    Does this make sense to you, or do you need a few hundred more posts under your belt to set you straight?

    QN,

    I suggest we change the thread. Perhaps we can discuss what it takes to be officially considered Muslim or the converse, and Infidel.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 26, 2012, 7:37 am
  6. In addition, the Book of Ruth is an important way of understanding the conversion process in Judaism. BTW, Ruth, who was not born jewish (she was Moabite), happened to be King David’s great-gradmother.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Ruth

    … however, Ruth says, “Entreat me not to leave you, or to turn back from following you; For wherever you go, I will go; And wherever you lodge, I will lodge; Your people shall be my people, and your God, my God. Where you die, I will die, and there will I be buried. The LORD do so to me, and more also, if anything but death parts you and me.”

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 26, 2012, 7:47 am
  7. #605:

    Yes AP. That makes lots of sense to me.

    ” He was born in Belgium as a Christian. He married an Israeli/Jewish/Moroccan …”

    You could have stopped the sentence right there. He “converted” because he Married. The family he married into were happy enough to get this “fake”, “insincere” “conversion” into Judaism.

    This type of things routinely happens within the Muslim/Christian communities.

    Many friends of mine “Converted” into Catholicism for the sake of their spouses. Their “conversions” are no less sincere- but make no mistake about it- the ultimate driver is “faith”. Had the family they married into been more open minded, they would not have had to indulge in theatrics.

    Capisce?

    PS. You are more than welcome to try and change the topic any time you want. Remember- YOU are the one who brought up the topic, now grow some balls and discuss it, instead of leaving poor AIG to do all the heavy lifting for you.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 8:00 am
  8. Gabriel,

    I don’t have the patience AIG has, and it’s not about “growing balls” to discuss anything with you. It’s about stooping down to the level of child, which isn’t my “thing”.

    BTW – he could have converted as a single man. It makes no difference.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 26, 2012, 8:15 am
  9. AP:

    He could have…

    … But he didn’t.

    So please, in future, if you would like to draw on examples, make them pertinent and relevant.

    Better yet, why don’t you invite your In-Law to join this forum to give us his perspectives as a once-Christian-now-Likudnik-Not-Believing-Jew.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 9:20 am
  10. Playing “Patty-Cake” with Gabriel’s Joo Conversion Obsession

    Gabriel,

    Your learning process would be much better appreciated if you weren’t so oppositional and petty.

    I never said he was “not-believing”. Not only do you put words in my mouth, you make sweeping statements like “fake” and “insincere”. That’s a hell of DISRESPECTFUL statement to say.

    I merely said, “He is not religious at all and he may not even believe in God.”. I never asked him and I KNOW you haven’t. As AIG noted several times, a persons true belief is quite personal and not widely publicized. We really don’t know if he believes in God or not, and neither do the rabbis who oversee his conversion.

    But, yet, you can’t wrap this trivial notion around your close-minded brain. So be it.

    Whether you like it or not, Non-Jews convert to Judaism everyday, single or married, believing in G-d or not believing in G-d requesting Israeli citizenship or not requesting Israeli citizenship.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 26, 2012, 9:53 am
  11. AP

    This is one of thousands of examples of a person who became an Israeli citizen without the “required” (only in your mind) background of “genes” or “faith”.

    Then if you had any iota of decency…. you would not have said this was an example that was not related to Faith.

    You don’t even know if he has Faith or not, or if Faith had anything at all to do with his conversion.

    Why then did you bring up this example at all?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 9:56 am
  12. I need to point out to those arguing here, that the only democracy in the Middle East, the state of Israel, does not have a civil marriage code or law.

    You need to get it, to get it!

    Posted by Monolith | April 26, 2012, 12:07 pm
  13. Meanwhile, while we debate the “strange-but-true”, incomprehensible, and sometimes “fake” jewish conversion/Israeli citizenship process, life continues in the rest of the more easily understood Middle East.

    Which is good thing, because what is understood does’t garner quite as many questions…

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6e7_1335400313

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 26, 2012, 2:01 pm
  14. Monolith,

    What you say is half true. In order not to fight with the religious people a compromise was reached that there is no civil marriage in Israel, BUT Israel recognizes any civil marriage from abroad. So Israelis that want to have a civil marriage fly 20 minutes to Cyprus and get married and the marriage is just as valid as if they were married in Israel. The accurate way to state what you said is that Israel does not have civil marriage but recognizes civil marriage as completely lawful.

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 2:57 pm
  15. AIG,

    You should be more accurate and include:

    “The accurate way to state what you said is that Israel does not have civil marriage but recognizes civil marriage as completely lawful” … as long as it does not involve an Arab national.

    You are highly oblivious to your own racism and apartheid.

    Posted by Monolith | April 26, 2012, 3:27 pm
  16. AP….

    … Still waiting.

    Statement 1 Regarding your brother in law:

    This is one of thousands of examples of a person who became an Israeli citizen without the “required” (only in your mind) background of “genes” or “faith”.

    Statement 2 Regarding your brother in law:

    I never said he was “not-believing”.

    Which is it? Is he believing (i.e. he has faith), or is he not-believing?

    If you don’t know, why were you disrespectful 🙂 to your Brother in Law and SAY he is “Without Faith”.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 3:38 pm
  17. Hey Gabriel, what are you trying to prove here ? I wish you put some of that energy into arguing with poeple like Parvyizi when he claimed it was ok to kill children in Syria, you didnt get so worked up then ! its evident that your arguments are driven only by the fact that you and AIG clashed some 500 posts ago and you seem not able to let it go. just an observation and i hope you dont get offended by it.

    Posted by Vulcan | April 26, 2012, 4:02 pm
  18. The REAL ME “Energy Crisis”

    I wish you put some of that energy into arguing with poeple like Parvyizi when he claimed it was ok to kill children in Syria…

    Vulcan states the obvious.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 26, 2012, 4:13 pm
  19. Vulcan:

    https://qifanabki.com/2012/02/27/sham-votes/#comment-33552

    Read above and below.

    I am not offended. But yes, it seems I dedicated as much energy. This one stretched longer because AIG stretched it longer.

    What am I trying to prove? Nothing really. Only that contrary to AIG’s assertion “Jewish Prayers” are not Special and different from Christian or Muslim ones. It’s all the same S&%t.

    And more importantly, for the other discussions, that AIG adopts positions not out of consistently applied principles, but out of biased personal positions. I don’t see a problem with that (he is not unique in that), but I would appreciate that he is just honest and owns up to it.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 4:16 pm
  20. Monolith,

    “as long as it does not involve an Arab national.”

    What are you talking about? What do you mean by Arab national? Of course Israel recognizes the marriage of Israeli Arabs if they get a civil marriage abroad.

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 4:17 pm
  21. AP..

    Don’t be shy… go ahead and answer!

    Why were you “disrespectful” to your brother in law?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 4:20 pm
  22. Gabriel,

    You are just showing your ignorance. The concept of prayer in Judaism is different from that in Christianity and Islam. Praying was a reaction to the destruction of the Temple and was a concept developed by Rabbinic Judaism.

    If you want to start learning, here is a good place to start:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rabbinic_Judaism

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 4:26 pm
  23. lolllll always the same loop!

    First the discussion
    Then the discussion ends
    Then you have one of our resident zionists being asked questions (at odd with QN’s post)
    Then the resident zionist is being challenged in the very non sense he writes
    Then you have somebody who brings the word apartheid or racism
    Then you got SUPER Arab Vulcan, who comes at the rescue and criticize the one challenging the resident zionist (normally he talks about racists and antisemites)
    And then, the “prestige” is when AP comes and give the “kosher” label to SUPER Arab Vulcan!

    I swear I was waiting for that. And it happened. lollll

    PS: and AP is still playing the guy-who-doesn’t-know-that-dongetit-is-a-zionist

    Posted by 3issa | April 26, 2012, 4:34 pm
  24. Let’s Start another 500 Post thread: “Who’s the Zionist”?

    3issa,

    I thought you were the Zionist.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 26, 2012, 4:39 pm
  25. #619 Gabriel,

    “It’s all the same S&%t”

    Are you atheist? Do you really believe that praying is just a S%!t ? I mean, loads of people out there wouldn’t live without that. Are they junkies? 🙂

    Posted by 3issa | April 26, 2012, 4:39 pm
  26. LOL AIG !!

    “What are you talking about? What do you mean by Arab national? Of course Israel recognizes the marriage of Israeli Arabs if they get a civil marriage abroad.”

    That reminds me of an old joke of a Lebanese man arguing with a Syrian about freedom of speech. The Lebanese tells the Syrian “You have absolutely no freedom of speech in Syria! We, can curse any of our politicians publicly!”.

    The Syrian retorts “Really !? So can we ! Kiss immo Walid Jumbaltt! Ou eyri bi Rafiq El Hariri” and on and on the loud public curses on our Lebanese Politicians continues.

    We know very well that any Arab Israeli can travel to marry another Arab Israeli in Cyprus. However, when the groom happens to be a hairy Palestinian Arab called Mohammed … It gets complicated 🙂

    Who can forget Ariel Sharon’s attempt of pressuring the Justice Ministry to implement that into law?

    Posted by Monolith | April 26, 2012, 4:41 pm
  27. 624 #AP,

    Seriously AP, don’t get it is a staunch one. You can figure it out if you go through some old threads. But there is no point at spending the next 500 posts “chassing undercover zionists”. Makes no sense, and its disgusting. It’s just that you keep ignoring when you are told that he is just doing irony.

    Nothing more, I swear by the God who makes the sun rise and set.

    Posted by 3issa | April 26, 2012, 4:44 pm
  28. addendum to post 626

    and the bride happens to be Jewish Princess. It gets complicated.

    Posted by Monolith | April 26, 2012, 4:44 pm
  29. 3issa:

    Please don’t misunderstand my use of the word S%&t. I do all sort of S$&t all the time. We all do S%$t all the time.

    It was not intended in any shape/form/manner to denigrate the activities of “Religious” folk- be they Jewish, Christian, Muslim, Animist or whatever.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 4:47 pm
  30. Monolith,

    When Jews are not afraid to have a Jewish wedding openly in Beirut, let me know. Better yet, when Jews are not afraid to identify as Jews in Lebanon let me know. Till then, you have no leg to stand on. You are preaching some Utopian nonsense that has no basis in reality.

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 4:47 pm
  31. Monolith,

    It does not get complicated whatsoever if one is Arab Israelis and the other Jewish Israeli. These marriages are completely legal. Where do you get your information from?

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 4:50 pm
  32. AP…

    I’m still waiting for an answer to #621.

    Or at least an apology?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 4:50 pm
  33. 3issa,

    So how long have you been a Zionist?

    YNet has an article from an arab like you who is strongly pro-israel:

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4220976,00.html

    Anyway, I just want to thank both of you (and Vulcan of course) for supporting the 1 true democracy in the ME…

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 26, 2012, 4:50 pm
  34. #622:

    AIG.

    Yes, I am quite the ignorant one.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 4:53 pm
  35. Gabriel,

    Thanks for admitting it.

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 4:54 pm
  36. No problem AIG.

    And just in case you thought I was being facetious, I assure you I was not. I humbly admit to being quite ignorant.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 4:59 pm
  37. Yet you make bold statements about things you are ignorant about, such as Jewish prayer.

    I have started hoping you join Hezbollah and bring your logic to them.

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 5:03 pm
  38. Nope. I didn’t make any sort of bold statements about Jewish prayer. I never made any such statements. In fact, I said I was ignorant of what Jews prayed about.

    To help you jog your memory… Here’s the post:

    https://qifanabki.com/2012/03/08/satire-the-syrian-revolution/#comment-34754

    I asked you for sample prayers. You posted a Wiki Link. And the one prayer I found in the link and that I quoted many posts above reads identically to Muslim and Christian prayers.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 5:13 pm
  39. So based on a few textual similarities you assumed that the concept of prayer is the same in Judaism and Christianity. That is ignorance cubed. You looked at a small subset of prayers, you ignored the different meanings different religions give the words and you assumed that you can figure the intent and purpose of the prayer based on its text. Nice job.

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 5:21 pm
  40. And you know the “Meaning” Christians and Muslims give to the “Words” of their prayer?

    How could you? There are hundreds of interpretations, of schools of thought- even within one religion, let alone different religions! There is no one “Singular” meaning.

    I humbly admit to being a small pesky nothing floating in this universe. Ignorant Galore.

    Look at you. You don’t have one humble bone in your body!

    You have yet to concede one poor judgement or argument.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 5:26 pm
  41. Gabriel, I understand but still… and of course all prayers are the same, and different too 

    I guess 3issa you must be the gullible Moroccan in that conspiracy/play you alluded to, anyways I am not honored by you bestowing the Super Arab role or robe on I.
    if you must know, I am Arab, but not SUPER, just very Arab, that’s why I am disgusted and distressed at the state of the majority of my fella Arabs, who are like you, too much into hiding their Super retardation and failures throughout history, behind a conflict and an illusion they created (or created for them by the colonial koffar and infidels) for such purpose only. How convenient! You should really thank the colonial powers; they left you a good piece of sand to plug your head in it with the rest of the masses. Ta7ya al thawra brother.

    Posted by Vulcan | April 26, 2012, 5:27 pm
  42. “It does not get complicated whatsoever if one is Arab Israelis and the other Jewish Israeli. These marriages are completely legal. Where do you get your information from?”

    Do a simple Google seach:

    Arab Israeli Marriages

    Jewish Arab Marriages

    Posted by Monolith | April 26, 2012, 5:31 pm
  43. Vulcan..

    As I wrote when I started this thread again. It was slow here.

    And yes, they [prayers] are all the “same”, and all a “little different” at the same time. Poor AIG is still going at it.

    I’ll stop.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 5:32 pm
  44. Again, you just make my point. If you knew all along that there are so many different meanings, why did you boldly say that they are the same? Just to argue?

    I voice an opinion only on things I have knowledge about, and if I don’t, I state that up front. You on the other hand make bold statements based on your admitted ignorance. And you claim you are humble. Go figure.

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 5:34 pm
  45. AIG:

    This is hopeless. You’re Right, as always. I’m wrong.

    Let’s end it.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 5:41 pm
  46. Again, you contradict yourself. If you to end “it”, you would just stop responding. But you didn’t.

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 5:45 pm
  47. 646 should be:
    Again, you contradict yourself. If you want to end “it”, you would just stop responding. But you didn’t.

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 5:46 pm
  48. I Am a Super Zionist, “doing the Hava Nagila” right here in Da7yeh bel Moraba3 al Amny ! lol

    Bteklo fawaweij ya shabeeeeeeeebb

    Posted by Vulcan | April 26, 2012, 5:47 pm
  49. “When Jews are not afraid to have a Jewish wedding openly in Beirut, let me know. Better yet, when Jews are not afraid to identify as Jews in Lebanon let me know. Till then, you have no leg to stand on. You are preaching some Utopian nonsense that has no basis in reality.”

    We don’t have a problem with Jews. We did have one with Israel in the past and obviously will continue to have one with a country that is driven by hardliners.

    You have more in common with the Wahabis than you do with your neighbors.

    If you haven’t noticed, abolishing sectarianism in Lebanon is advocated on this blog.

    How you think the perceptions of a secular, democratic Lebanon, will work in your favor, I am not sure about.

    Less so with a secular and democratic Egypt and Syria.

    You need Hizbollah, the Wahabis and the Vilayat Al Faqih philosophy to continue arguing your case.

    You won’t have a leg to stand with a secular Lebanese Atheist, for sure 🙂

    Posted by Monolith | April 26, 2012, 5:52 pm
  50. dont let me stop y’all.. feel free to argue more… am making zhoorat

    Posted by Vulcan | April 26, 2012, 5:53 pm
  51. LoL.

    A funny story about the Hava Nagila. Many years back, I was at an Arab wedding in Montreal, and they had hired a couple of violinists. I happen to Love the Hava Nagila. And the violinists had gone around table by table.

    I was young, and a little clueless. So I asked those players to play the tune, and they played it, and then all the other tables started to look at my direction… LoL.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 5:54 pm
  52. Monolith,

    What you don’t have a problem with translates to bubkis (nothing) on the ground. You talk a big game, but achieve very little on the ground. When I see Jews celebrating their Jewishness in Beirut without fear, I will start taking you seriously. Instead of just talking, let’s see Jews in Lebanon living as well and thriving as the Druze in the Golan. Talk is very cheap.

    Posted by AIG | April 26, 2012, 5:59 pm
  53. Last I remember, the Jews were welcome in Lebanon and were sipping cocktails in bars all over towns in Lebanon with little incident, all things considered.

    Posted by Monolith | April 26, 2012, 6:13 pm
  54. #644

    AIG, I have ended “it”, as “it” is a topic that is not worth discussing further.

    If you knew all along that there are so many different meanings, why did you boldly say that they are the same? Just to argue?

    AIG, the colour Red has many shades. There is no such thing as “Red”. Red- if it exists- is only an Archetype.

    But in conversation, one may refer often to Red.

    Since we are not talking about “it” anymore, we’ll talk about Red instead.

    What continuously transpires in discussions with you is that you intentionally deviate the conversation from the broader concepts to details, that may very well be true, but are nonetheless deviations from the broader topic at hand.

    What has happened, in essence is that I referred to something as being “Red”, and you have come back forcefully to tell me that I ought not to do that, because Red comes in many shades.

    To say that the various shades of Red are the same, by referring to them all in one Singular description- Red- is not to say that in some perfect digital world, each “Red” one see out in the world carries the same RGB coordinate (1,0,0). The “Same” should be understood contextually to refer to the Archetype of Red- inasmuch as such an archetype exists (and it does not exist for the color blind).

    So in essence, you are the one who is arguing for the sake of arguing.

    I hope this clarifies matters.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 6:20 pm
  55. #641, do you believe that because you are an Arab you can vomit such racist hatred against Arabs?

    I mean if you don’t like where “the Arabs” stand today. Fine. But don’t you think that you should separate yourself from them? If I would be convinced that I belonged to an archaic death-oriented culture, I would just cut the root binding me to that damned tree, a la Ayan Hirsi Ali or Ibn Warraq (for them it is Islam).

    And there is no harm to this. Cut the tree, let it go, and leave “the Arabs” swimming in their own s!&t. The last thing these very Arabs need is somebody pontifying about how backward and barbaric they are. It’s not constructive dude. It reminds me that debate on QN where you have these Lebanon Lovers who kept negating any positive aspect of the country…but that were fine, since they are Lebanese. B1$£ch please…

    And what’s that non sense with the conspiracy play? And what’s the point with the colonial bull crap you are reffering to? Are you having a parallel conversation with outer space? Do not even answer, I guess why you are writing this.

    laila sa3eeda l asdi9a

    Posted by 3issa | April 26, 2012, 6:30 pm
  56. “Instead of just talking, let’s see Jews in Lebanon living as well and thriving as the Druze in the Golan. Talk is very cheap.”

    The Druze are thriving in Lebanon.

    Where do you get your information from?

    Posted by Monolith | April 26, 2012, 6:42 pm
  57. So let’s get this straight Monolith, its Israel now that is wickedly stopping the Lebanese from abolishing sectarianism? hahayyyyyyyyy

    And “we don’t have a problem with the Jews” you dare state such lies? Who is “We”? Who do you represent in Lebanon or the bigger Arab world oh you Atheist Secular Tolerant One?

    Could it be because we have a problem with the Jews thus the problem with Israel? Could it be that we also have a problem with the Shiaa and the Sunni and the Christian, Druz, Kurdish, Alawi, the Maids, the Poor thus the problems with each other and the rest of the WORLD

    Can you guarantee my rights if I decide to convert from Islam to Judaism in say Kuwait, Jeddah, Tehran or Beirut?

    “You have more in common with the Wahabis than you do with your neighbors.” really? Hizballah, their immediate neighbor is unlike the Wahabis? Or who do you mean by their neighbors? The Maronites? Or the Druz ? Am sure these 2 have always been the enlightened moderate pacifist atheists. Especially in the Mountains.

    Get real Hombre

    Posted by Vulcan | April 26, 2012, 7:00 pm
  58. lol at Gab’s Hava Nagila story .. Goodnight 3issa

    Posted by Vulcan | April 26, 2012, 7:02 pm
  59. This is going into a good direction.

    It is up to you to decide what and who can get your “rights” across in a world we all end up having to share “together”.

    Posted by Monolith | April 26, 2012, 7:18 pm
  60. #657, et al

    Well at least we can say AIG and 3Issa have something in common. AIG believes that all those Self-Loathing Jews are not “Jews” in their heart and state of mind. And 3Issa wants you to Wash away the “Arab” from you.

    We need an Identity Crisis Helpline set up soon.

    For your viewing and listening pleasure

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 7:37 pm
  61. AP, AP…

    Where art thou AP?

    What’s the story with your Brother-In-Law?

    Any chance you can get him on QN’s forum to provide some perspective?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 26, 2012, 7:42 pm
  62. 660 lol

    its late in Beirut, Thanks & Goodnight

    Posted by Vulcan | April 26, 2012, 7:51 pm
  63. Maybe you ought to ask the Druze of the Golan.

    http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/middle-east/israel-and-palestine/120412/syria-israel-golan-heights-druze?page=full

    “Citizenship: Undefined.”

    “Israel does not recognize their Syrian citizenship and fewer and fewer Golan Druze themselves identify as Syrian. They all carry Israeli ID cards but are mostly unwilling to take Israeli passports. So, for now, undefined it is.”

    Posted by Maverick | April 26, 2012, 9:23 pm
  64. gabby;

    Actually everybody was happy at my sister’s wedding reception when we had a Jewish chanteuse and singing hava nagila…Amazing. All our Jewish & “gentile” friends loved it lol. Especially when two of our friends lifted the bride and groom on their shoulders and danced to the song.

    …No turning heads…Just smiles. Even HA/Wahabbis invited…Although iceman would have been a great fit (I miss him lol)

    Posted by danny | April 27, 2012, 7:10 am
  65. Maverick,

    Interesting link. My guess is that the Druze feel lucky they’re not on the other side of the border right now. Despite some of them protesting FOR the Syrian regime, I am sure they are actually breathing a sigh of relief.

    On my last trip to Israel, a group of us planned an afternoon in the Israeli Druze village of Shefar’am, where we met a Druze man who gave us a little history of the Druze and their customs. Needless to say, he was very pro-Israel. The food was really good!

    Vulcan,

    What are your impressions of the Arab Awakening? Are you optimistic?

    Personally, I am hoping that Monolith, 3issa and dontgetit set up another Zionist state in the region so arabs can live in freedom. Perhaps they’ll choose Gabriel as their Minister of the Interior so he can make sure everyone is treated fairly and squarely and not “faking” prayers and such.;)

    Best,

    AP

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 27, 2012, 7:28 am
  66. Despite Zionist crimes regarding fake prayer and making people travel outside the country for a civilian marriage, it is nice to see other parts of the ME moving in the right direction…

    Egyptian husbands will soon be legally allowed to have sex with their dead wives for up to six hours after their death, local media is claiming.

    The controversial new law is claimed to be part of a raft of measures being introduced by the Islamist-dominated parliament.
    It will also see the minimum age of marriage lowered to 14 and the ridding of women’s rights of getting education and employment.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2135434/Outrage-Egypt-plans-farewell-intercourse-law-husbands-sex-dead-wives-hours-AFTER-death.html

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 27, 2012, 7:40 am
  67. Who got stuck @666? 😛

    Posted by danny | April 27, 2012, 7:55 am
  68. Ouch! That can’t be good. one step forward two steps back.

    Posted by maverick | April 27, 2012, 7:57 am
  69. danny 667 : its AP lol

    AP 666 : I don’t know if you are being dishonnest here, but its a hoax

    “OK to clarify, here is why I think the dead wife bonking law rumour is a hoax, cos people are still asking.
    In the video below, Gaber el-Qarnouty says that there is a draft law. He entirely bases this on a column by Amr Abdel-Samee3 in Al-Ahram (who he refers to as “ostaazy”. Explains a lot).
    Abdel-Samee3’s column refers to “talk about a [dead wife bonking law]”. There is no mention of 1. where the law was discussed. 2. By who. 3. When.
    The only sources I have found for anything about this topic are:
    1. A fatwa by a Moroccan sheikh and
    2. A rant by that media personality Tawfik “bring back Mubarak” Okasha, here
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7pTtY0ZDhA broadcast on 15/4.
    There is also talk about a letter sent by a member of the Women’s Council in protest at the law, but noone has produced it.
    My feeling: some nutter MP PERHAPS mentioned it in a parliamentary committee (where is the evidence? The media would leap on something like this) and before you know it it’s a draft law.
    Conclusion: It’s a load of bollocks.”

    Posted by 3issa | April 27, 2012, 8:09 am
  70. AP#665,666:

    I’m still waiting for an answer. Or at least that you invite your brother in law to this forum.

    Was his conversion “Faith” based or not? And why did you flip-flop on the story. If he has “Faith”, why did you disrespect him and say he has none? Don’t you at least owe him an apology?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 8:30 am
  71. Danny,

    The head turning wasn’t malicious. Just a reaction to something unexpected.

    Maybe Iceman lingers on in a new Identity… although I would have thought I’d have sniffed him out by now! He truly is missed.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 8:34 am
  72. War on Terrorism Update

    Well, it wasn’t much more than a year ago, I thought Syria was the safest place on Earth.

    Now Syria is facing another wave of terrorism that far outshadows anything the US or Israel has faced.

    I think the Syrian government should team with Israel and the West to combat this terrible scourge…

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17870301

    Does anyone here have any advice for the Syrian government, or should we instead focus on the crimes of Zionist prayer rituals?

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 27, 2012, 8:49 am
  73. Maverick,

    Did you actually read the article on the Druze that you linked?
    When Jews can thrive in Lebanon one tenth of the way the Golan Druze thrive, let me know. Here is what the mayor of Majdal Shams has to say in the article you linked:
    —————
    Mayor Abu Salach’s top lobbying goal for this year is getting Majdal Shams recognized as a “border settlement,” which would give the town a significant tax break. An earlier, identical proposal about six years ago was about to pass the Knesset when it was torpedoed by an Arab member of the Communist Party who, not recognizing Israel’s rule over the Golan, pointed out that if Majdal Shams received the same rights as other border settlements, that would imply recognition of “the imaginary Golan border with Syria.”

    A soft-spoken man who looks like an especially well brought up teenager, the mayor sat in a tidy office adorned with Israel’s flag and the framed pictures of Israel’s president and prime minister.

    “That is bullshit,” he said, with a polite smile. “We live in the state of Israel, we enjoy all the benefits of a very democratic regime. We pay taxes. And we get excellent social benefits. So, yes, bullshit.”

    He is taking Majdal Shams’s demand for recognition to the Supreme Court. “It is a privilege,” he said.

    He, too, does not relish talk of Syria. “Look, the political destiny is unclear, but this Syria question is a record we’ve been hearing for a long time. You want me to compare the standard of living here and in Syria? Social services? I can’t compare.”
    ———————

    Just read the whole thing and tell me with a straight face that given how Lebanese Jews are even afraid to say they are Jews that you have a leg to stand on and criticize Israel. Not that Israel is perfect, far from it. But given the huge differences, Monolth’s criticism is just a form of escapism.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 9:08 am
  74. AP,

    We can move back to a discussion on Syria, fornicating with cadavers and other such matters after you answer the question. Otherwise it would be anarchy in QN’s forum, with people willy nilly changing topics before a conversation has been complete.

    Does your Brother in Law have “Faith” in the Judaism. If so, why did you Dis-respect him and say that his Conversion was not for Faith?

    If not, why were you rude and impertinent with me and suggest I was being Disrespectful for calling his faith insincere.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 9:20 am
  75. Gabriel,

    “AIG, the colour Red has many shades. There is no such thing as “Red”. Red- if it exists- is only an Archetype.”

    You really stooped to this argument? You are arguing that you can paint things with a wide brush and make generalizations just like Alex used to argue that the Bush’s America and Assad Syria are the same. Of course from 60,000 feet everything is the “same”. But the devil is in the details and knowledge is advanced when we understand that there are salient differences between things, just like there are salient differences between the concept of prayer in Judaism and other religions.

    You admitted you are ignorant about this issue, but still are trying to argue that they are the “same”, just because you don’t understand the differences. Oh well.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 9:26 am
  76. PS. A simple apology and concession of error would suffice to put this matter to rest.

    Here are some sample words:

    “Yes Gabriel, you were right. The example was not relevant, and I was trying to pull a quick one. I don’t know if my Brother In Law has faith, or does not have any. I can only assume that by going through the Conversion process that he at least intended to be insincere. It was presumptuous of me to cast any doubt over his sincerity in the process.”

    or:

    “Yes Gabriel, you were right. He really doesn’t have Faith. The only reason he went through the gruelling process was for Love. He loved his wife, and by extension her family- who thought it would be proper that he convert into the Faith simply because it would make matters easier (for example, there would not be future debates on whether the male children should not be snipped, or that they should be Baptized, etc..). So yes, you are right, it was Insincere so to speak, but “Culturally” acceptable to me for reasons I outlined above”.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 9:26 am
  77. No AIG,

    From 60,000 feet: Not everything is the same. Things are not the same simply because you can’t see them at all. That is NOT the same argument.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 9:30 am
  78. #676: Insincere should read Sincere

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 9:30 am
  79. Gabriel,

    Of course it is. You are saying Jewish prayer and Christian prayer are like light red and dark red and are similar. From a distance or in poor lighting (an analogy to your ignorance) the colors would look the same, but upon closer inspection and under the right conditions the salient differences are revealed.

    And as for what AP is saying, you of course miss the whole point which is that neither faith nor genes are necessary to become Jewish. If he became Jewish out of love, the proves AP’s and my point. Of course the example was relevant, but you interpreted it in a narrow minded way. That is why AP is ignoring you.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 9:37 am
  80. AIG,

    Escape from what?

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 9:38 am
  81. Monolith,

    From 2 things:
    1) Your own reality in Lebanon which is much worse
    2) The need to focus on solving your own problems which are admittedly difficult to solve

    It is basically the same strategy that Arab dictators used to cover up their own failure, pointing at Israel over trivial issues such as civil marriage while ignoring the problems in their own house or not devoting energy to solving these problems.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 9:46 am
  82. Gabriel, you are seriously trying to extract apologies from his HHAIG His Highness Another Israeli Guy?

    Posted by 3issa | April 27, 2012, 9:48 am
  83. Iceman, we miss you ktir

    Posted by 3issa | April 27, 2012, 9:50 am
  84. Have A Nice Day

    We can move back to a discussion on Syria, fornicating with cadavers and other such matters after you answer the question.

    Gabriel,

    Really? Actually, I think I can discuss anything I want at the pleasure of the owners here.

    Who made you The QN Police Commissioner?

    Anyway, the BBC reports that a Palestinian Minister resigned due to his censorship of opposition web sites:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-17868323

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 27, 2012, 9:51 am
  85. AIG

    I am certainly not as educated on the subject as you seem to be.

    But asking your neighbors to sort out their problems without taking the state of Israel into consideration is a bit short-sighted.

    Anyway, I will leave you to your beliefs.

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 10:10 am
  86. I guess the existence of the following parties in Lebanon is an “internal” problem 🙂

    Fatah al-Islam, the Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, the Front for Palestinian Popular Struggle, the Liberation Front for Palestine, the Palestinian People’s Party, the Arab Liberation Front, the Fatah Movement, the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas), Islamic Jihad, al-Saiqa, the Palestinian Communist Party, the Palestinian Liberation Party, the al-Ansar League, Jund el-Sham, Ansar Allah, the Hezbollah.

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 10:20 am
  87. Monolith,

    I disagree with your premise. From my perspective as an Israeli, Israel has to solve its own problems no matter what its neighbors do or what they are. Neither Lebanon nor Israel can be hostage to what is happening in the other country and blaming one’s problems on others leads you nowhere. Bad laws in Israel are no excuse for bad laws in Lebanon and vice versa.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 10:23 am
  88. Monolith,

    How is the existence of anything inside Lebanon not an internal Lebanese issue? The problem really is not their existence, it is your inability to control these parties. Many of the parties you mention, have similar ideological counterparts in Israel. 20% of Israelis are Palestinians, much more than in Lebanon and they are not considered our “brothers” like you you consider them. So you see how mentioning these parties is just an excuse?

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 10:28 am
  89. #682:

    LoL. No not from AIG (the poor guy doesn’t owe anyone an apology), but AP. And no, of course not. You won’t get anything from him.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 10:45 am
  90. #679.

    AIG:

    You are being intentionally argumentative. I can’t take any of your discussions seriously.

    Also, please don’t defend AP just as a matter of reflex. You’re much better and smarter than he is. I thought you and I stopped discussing “It”. Why do you keep bringing “It” back up again?

    For the record, I am glad that you read through the Sample apologies and seem to agree with Apology 2. Read it through again- this Conversion for Love is equivalent to Conversion for Faith. So if anything, you proved my point. Just drop the subject AIG.. you lost the argument about 100 posts ago.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 10:55 am
  91. #684…

    … Still waiting.

    AP, a “discussion with yourself” is a monologue, not really a discussion, that you are most welcome to have any time you please, at the discretion of this Blog’s owner.

    If you want others to engage with you, there are rules for engagement.

    Right now you are here randomly posting items that no one is paying any attention to, which is fine.

    But if you are looking for serious engagement from other forum members, you should show some respect for the discussions you have with them.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 11:03 am
  92. Gabriel,

    Yes, the typical strategy of the loser, to claim victory and run away. It is quite simple, you made arguments our of ignorance about what Jewish prayer is and you are still trying to defend your ignorance by doubling down on it and using stupid arguments that just magnify your ignorance and inability to see salient differences between things.

    And as usual you lie. I never said or agreed to stop discussing anything. You said you will stop discussing “it”, but of course you continue to do so. Your word is not worth much.

    And how is conversion for love equivalent in any way shape or form to a conversion of faith? When you love someone and are willing to identify with her nation and identity and tie your destiny to her it is quite different from converting because you think the God of Judaism is better than the God of Christianity or because you start believing in God.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 11:06 am
  93. When you love someone and are willing to identify with her nation and identity

    and “FAITH”.

    You can say the word AIG. No shame in it. Say the word. Willing to identify with her “NATION” and “FAITH”.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 11:09 am
  94. With proportional representation being a hot topic in Lebanon these days, it would be interesting for QN to post something in relation to it and get the debate going on this site as well.

    http://www.lbcgroup.tv/Kalam-ennas/videos

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 11:11 am
  95. Gabriel,

    Your typical way of arguing which is contradicting yourself. You castigate AP for assuming belief in the man converting and now you assume belief in the woman he is converting for.

    Furthermore, you are not able to see the distinction between identifying or respecting someone else’s faith and having the same faith yourself. Why am I not surprised? When you can’t argue on the facts, you argue that everything is the same because you do not know better.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 11:17 am
  96. You castigate AP for assuming belief in the man converting and now you assume belief in the woman he is converting for.

    That’s a load of rubbish. I did no such thing, and if you want to make false allegations, link to the post where I castigated AP for “assuming belief”. I castigated AP for contradicting himself.

    Furthermore, you are not able to see the distinction between identifying or respecting someone else’s faith and having the same faith yourself.

    Remember the discussion on “Red”. This is around the time it gets handy. Context.

    Of course there is a difference.

    But there is no difference in the Conversion process itself. In both Cases, the Conversion process is “Faith” based. By “Faith” based, it doesn’t mean he sincerely has the Faith.. but the Process is identical. He reads the same Hebrew texts that refer to the same “God”. He keeps the same Kind of Kosher as though he had real “Faith”, etc, etc, etc.

    That he may secretly eat Bacon when he’s on a Business trip in London may be true, but quite irrelevant.

    Context.

    Capisce?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 11:25 am
  97. How obstinate and wrong can you be? What people believe matters. You keep making the same mistake over and over and you just can’t understand that what you call the “conversion” does not make anyone a Jew. You employ circular reasoning. You define a Jew as someone who gets a certificate from a rabbi when clearly this is wrong, and then argue based on this false premise. Look, if you know better than the Jews themselves what they are and how to become one, just say so.

    And I already have shown how stupid your argument about “red” is. It is just an argument out of ignorance and narrow mindedness. It is making a generalization and then supporting it while ignoring salient details that make the generalization null and void.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 11:37 am
  98. AIG,

    It is not I who is obstinate. The “Red” discussion couldn’t be any more pertinent.

    As I said before, you are being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative.

    This is not a discussion AIG. You’re being asinine and silly. And it is not because of your lack of intelligence. You simply want to derail the discussion.

    There is NO REASON to state the obvious. And what you have stated is the OBVIOUS.

    Of course what one believes matters. If a Nazi decides to go through the Rabbinical process to get a paper that says he is a “Jew”, a process which you say doesn’t make him a “Jew” but simply entitles him to the Return to Israel… I would say yes.. of course he is not a “Jew”.

    But this type of side argument serves no other purpose than to derail the more legitimate discussion.

    But I don’t think you are interested in discussing the legitimate discussion… only in derailing it.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 11:47 am
  99. … addendum to last post…

    but that Nazi is still, on paper, now a “Jew”. On paper that is. Not in spirit, or State of Mind, or Intent. On Paper.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 11:50 am
  100. Gabriel,

    Stating you are not obstinate or claiming that the “red” discussion is relevant is very easy. Making sound arguments which of course you have not, is much more difficult. I

    And here you go contradicting yourself again. The whole discussion is how to define a Jew. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. You repeat that conversion does not make a Jew and then you also argue that you need a “practical” criteria for hundreds of post above that. You are totally confused. Make up your mind and try again.

    And if you agree that conversion does not make a Jew or that my definition is the right one, as you seem to say in the last post then you have lost the argument.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 12:06 pm
  101. Just so the addendum. What a low way of arguing.
    You have been hoisted on your own petard.
    Answer clearly:
    1) What is the difference between a “Jew” and a Jew?
    2) Why should we care since we are discussing Jews not “Jews”?
    3) What is the difference between a Jew on paper and a Jew? If they are different then you have lost the argument. If they are the same, you are arguing that Jews are defined by conversion which clearly contradicts your last posts.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 12:10 pm
  102. A good article by Charles Krauthammer:

    While Syria burns

    Last year President Obama ordered U.S. intervention in Libya under the grand new doctrine of “Responsibility to Protect.” Moammar Gaddafi was threatening a massacre in Benghazi. To stand by and do nothing “would have been a betrayal of who we are,” explained the president.

    In the year since, the government of Syria has more than threatened massacres. It has carried them out. Nothing hypothetical about the disappearances, executions, indiscriminate shelling of populated neighborhoods. More than 9,000 are dead.

    Obama has said that we cannot stand idly by. And what has he done? Stand idly by.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/while-syria-burns/2012/04/26/gIQAQUC0jT_story.html

    Of course, if anyone knows why the arab countries who make up the “Arab League” can’t take care of their own problems, I’d sure like to know why.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 27, 2012, 12:54 pm
  103. Hahahahah

    # 701.

    For a clear and succinct definition that explains the difference between a Jew and a “Jew”, you can refer back to the words of one of the Finest “Jews” that grace QN’s forums.

    https://qifanabki.com/2012/03/08/satire-the-syrian-revolution/#comment-34735

    The difference ought to be obvious- it is the State of Mind.

    But that is not relevant to the discussion. The discussion was on Conversion, with the clear end-goal of getting Right of Return. That is how the discussion was started- by your friend AP. Scroll up to the start of the discussion, and you can verify for yourself that is in fact what the discussion was. The fact that you are unsuccessfully trying to derail the discussion to be something other than what it is is another issue altogether- try to derail away… it doesn’t change the discussion.

    AIG, as I said before, you lost the argument over 100 posts ago. Please stop, you are only making yourself look more and more ridiculous.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 1:10 pm
  104. Lebanese don’t have a problem with Jews.

    They do with Israel.

    http://www.haaretz.com/jewish-world/beirut-synagogue-restored-to-glory-despite-tensions-with-israel-1.308626

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 1:32 pm
  105. You are not going to get of the hook. You have been caught lying. The discussion is whether conversion makes you a Jew, not whether it allows you to become an Israeli citizen. The latter is obvious and there was never an argument about that. You were for hundreds of posts trying to argue for a practical definition and now you are lying about what the argument was about! You are trying to get away with BS arguments by writing things like “Jew” or Jew on paper which just show that you are either very confused or very dishonest.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 1:34 pm
  106. Monolith,

    Are you serious? Does renovating ONE synagogue prove anything? Do Lebanese Jews feel free and safe to act publicly as Jew? No they do not. When they do, let’s talk.

    Also, the fact that it took till 2010 to start renovating ONE synagogue you take as an example of Lebanon not having an issue with Jews? You know how many hundreds of mosques and churches have been renovated in Israel over the years? Why is it even news in Lebanon that a synagogue is being renovated? Exactly because Lebanon is inhospitable to Jews.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 1:42 pm
  107. AIG:

    OK. Let’s make this simple.

    Israel has 100 Citizens. Let’s say 20 of them are “Arabs”.

    Call the Citizens x1, x2, x3, … x100.

    Let us say that x100 is a Nazi who had gone to Rabbinical school and got a Certificate of Conversion.

    When the Wikipedia description of Israeli demographics says that Israel is 20% Arab, does it say it is:

    a) 79% Jew, 1% Nazi-with-Rabbinical Certificate
    b) 80% Jew
    c) Any other answer

    Please answer clearly.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 1:45 pm
  108. Yes, let’s make it simple. Here you are claiming that Wikipedia knows who is a Jew because it reports as a Jew is someone who went through a conversion process and got a certificate. You are putting on display again your circular logic. You see, you just can’t make up your mind which definition you accept. If you are arguing that a Jew is made by conversion just because of how statistics are reported, just say so. But you don’t say so because you said exactly the opposite a few posts ago!

    You use weasel tactics and talk out of both sides of your mouth thus contradicting yourself all the time. Either you accept that being a Jew is a state of mind, or you don’t. Which is it?

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 1:55 pm
  109. AIG.

    This is not very difficult.

    The answer is either (a), (b), or (c).

    Fine. You don’t like Wikipedia. Change Wikipedia to the Israeli Census Bureau.

    You have only 3 possible answers.

    I repeat the question.

    Israel has 100 citizens. 20 “Arabs”, 79 “Jews”, and 1 “Secretly-Nazi-but-got-a-Rabbinical-Certificate”.

    Does Israel Census say it has:

    a) 20% Arabs, 79% Jew, 1% Nazi-with-Rabbinical-Certificate
    b) 20% Arabs, 80% Jews
    c) Any other answer.. Please Fill in the blank.

    Don’t Derail the question with your drivel. “A”, “B” or “C”.

    Not very difficult.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 1:59 pm
  110. You’re the expert AIG.

    Personally, I think you should stick to comedy. You’re better at it that cohabiting with non-Jews.

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 2:01 pm
  111. I repeat my question:
    Either you accept that being a Jew is a state of mind, or you don’t. Which is it?

    And as for your stupid question, how many times did I write above that the Israeli government cannot read minds and that is why there is the definition there is in the Law of Return? The government reports to the best of its abilities. But if a lot of people came out and said that they are Nazis and not Jews of course the Israeli government would not report them as Jews.

    Are you weaseling out of the question or not? Do you accept that being a Jew is a state of mind or not?

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 2:09 pm
  112. Monolith,

    Of course I am much more an expert than you. There are basically no Jews in Lebanon, while 20% of Israel’s population is Arab. You are funny talking about co-habitation when the facts show you are a dismal failure in this regard.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 2:11 pm
  113. Nothing to see here.

    Just Carry On.

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 2:14 pm
  114. of course the Israeli government would not report them as Jews.

    HIP HIP HOORAY!

    So why did you derail the discussion with nonsense for 100 posts?

    Please start reading the thread again from the beginning and you tell me who the Weasel was.

    Yes- the Israeli government would report anyone who got the Rabbinical Certificate as a JEW, whether or not they were SINCERE about it.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 2:15 pm
  115. Sorry I misread that.

    Scrap that last post. Hip Hip Hooray too early.

    What does the Israeli Government report those people to be?

    A), B), or C).

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 2:18 pm
  116. Stop weaseling out of the question. I don’t care whether or not the Israeli Government can or cannot read the mind of those people who hold a Rabbinical Certificate.

    All they see before them is this Rabbinical Certificate.

    A), B), or C)

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 2:19 pm
  117. Monolith said:

    Lebanese don’t have a problem with Jews.

    Monolith,

    I guess not. How much trouble can 20 to 40 people be?

    Anyway, I’ll take Vulcan’s word on it and that of the Hezbo Charter….

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Lebanon

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 27, 2012, 2:20 pm
  118. It reports them to be what they say they are genius, just as it reports Jews that convert to Christianity as Christians, not Jews.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 2:21 pm
  119. AIG,

    If a Jew converts to Christianity, is he still a Jew?

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 2:27 pm
  120. A), B), or C).

    You seem to be having a hard time with this AIG.

    Why do you easily say that it reports “Jews” that convert to Christianity as “Christians”…

    but have a hard time explicitly stating what the Israeli government reports that Nazi-with-Rabbinic Certificate?

    Say it AIG. Say it explicitly.

    Don’t say it as “it reports them to be what they say they are”. Say the word.. it Reports them as “———“. Fill in the Blank.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 2:30 pm
  121. Monolith,

    “Nothing to see here.”

    And that is exactly the problem. All you have is hot air and bombastic ideals that never get implemented. You can SEE how well the Druze on the Golan are doing by visiting them and talking to them. You cannot see how the Jewish community in Lebanon is doing because it is afraid to be seen.

    Would you actually protect a Jew who wanted to speak freely as a Jew in Beirut? Or would you just write something or say something from far away while he was being abused? You see, that is the difference between us. I am committed to the safety and welfare of the Druze and would actually protect them effectively, while all you do is talk and preach. What is your BS worth anyway if it amounts to zero on the ground?

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 2:31 pm
  122. Gabriel,

    You are being super dense. If the Israeli government knows that someone is a Nazi and then though he has a certificate of conversion, it will report him as a Nazi not as a Jew. What can be clearer than that? And I said it above already.

    You have still not answered the question: Is being a Jew a state of mind or not? Still acting like a weasel? What is your answer?

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 2:36 pm
  123. No. No. No.

    The Rules of Engagement in a discussion is Quid Quo Pro.

    I want an explicit answer. I want you to FILL IN THE BLANK.

    Don’t derail the question by “If the government knows that someone is Nazi”. I didn’t ask you what they would do if they knew they were a Nazi. I said he was “Secretly” Nazi, but had this Rabbinical Certificate.

    SAY IT AIG.

    When you say it… then we can move on to your questions. Until then, I won’t answer any of your questions.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 2:39 pm
  124. I gave you an explicit answer, you just refuse to accept it. If the Israeli government knows the person is a Nazi it reports him as a Nazi, if it doesn’t, it reports him as a Jew. Yes, the Nazi in this case has succeeded in fooling the Israeli government into thinking he is a Jew when he is not.

    You are just using this as an excuse not to answer my simple question:
    Is being a Jew a state of mind or not?

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 2:47 pm
  125. AIG,

    I might have missed out on a few of your posts with Gabriel.

    What is your take on that?

    Is it a state of mind?

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 2:53 pm
  126. Monolith,

    I don’t blame you for missing a few hundred posts 🙂

    Of course being a Jew is a state of mind. A Jew is someone who self identifies as one and ties his destiny to that of the Jewish people.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 2:57 pm
  127. it reports him as a Jew.

    Now we can say it… Hip Hip Hooray.

    So why did you take us down this long path?

    My answer to your question was provided to you a long time ago, in this very thread.

    https://qifanabki.com/2012/03/08/satire-the-syrian-revolution/#comment-34759

    Every “Identity”, Jewish or not, is a State of Mind. A state of mind that one can never prove, or disprove.

    If the Latin Fire burns in Maverick’s heart, and he likes to Samba in the Favella. If he identifies so profoundly with Latin culture, he should be able to identify as “Latin” and not “Arab”.

    If Pierre from Lebanon feels French, and he wants to consider himself French. And he imbues himself in the culture and lives there, and attains citizenship. He should be French.

    But that aspect of “Identity”, the esoteric, emotional aspect was not the subject of our discussion. Our discussion related to Paperwork and Citizenship.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 3:09 pm
  128. Thank you for that clarification.

    Contrary to your insistence, AIG, I don’t think your neighbors are born with an anti-Jew gene.

    You know Nazism was also a state of mind.

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 3:16 pm
  129. Gabriel,

    Again, you are just lying. Not only that, you are quoting me out of context which is just as bad. You are refusing to give an answer to a simple question:
    Is being a Jew defined but a person’s state of mind?
    Just pick:
    1) Yes
    2) No

    The discussion was NEVER about paperwork or citizenship because the whole discussion started with me saying that what is required for citizenship in Israel is a definition solely for the purpose of the law. You are trying to wriggle and squirm and employ kindergarten argument tactics in order to hide what you seem to believe, which is that some certificate makes you a Jew.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 3:18 pm
  130. Monolith,

    I never said that my neighbors were born with an anti-Jew gene. What I said that those like you never bothered to stand up to those people who were anti-Jewish and protect the Jews in your lands form them, and in the end, that is all that counts, not useless talk.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 3:21 pm
  131. ….and the foreplay continues. 😀

    Posted by danny | April 27, 2012, 3:35 pm
  132. AIG,

    You had me at Shalom.

    I accept your definition of what it means to be a Jew.

    Now, how can we work out the definition of being pro-Jew but anti-Israeli?

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 3:47 pm
  133. Monolith,

    No problem with me, you can certainly be anti-Israel and with whatever attitude towards Jews (pro, neutral or con). And of course you can say, you are against all forms of nationalism, including the Jewish form and therefore against Israel.

    It is when you start rejecting Jewish nationalism and accepting other forms of nationalism that you may get into trouble… 🙂 You have to explain how you like Jews but would deny them what you would approve others.

    Of course you can be against specific policies of the Israeli government and not against Israel, which is the course I would recommend.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 4:05 pm
  134. The discussion was NEVER about paperwork or citizenship because the whole discussion started with me saying that what is required for citizenship in Israel is a definition solely for the purpose of the law.

    Who are you to say what the discussion was about? The discussion was started by AP, and its terms are very clear, I restate it here, verbatim, from AP:

    Gabriel,

    Have you ever thought of converting to Judaism? Don’t laugh.

    This could mean automatic citizenship to one of the few remaining democracies left on the planet.

    If you are not happy about the topic of conversation your friend, AP, started… Take it up with him. But the discussion was about Citizenship. The fact that you twisted and turned it to be something else is a side issue not related to the Topic that was being discussed.

    When AP suggested I go and get this Rabbinical Certificate so that I get automatic “Citizenship”, he didn’t put any Caveats about me being Sincere about the Conversion. And according to you, by Law, I would officially be called a Jew- IRRESPECTIVE of what is in my heart!

    So as I wrote before:

    1) You derailed the conversation and turned it into something it was not
    2) You have been consistently dishonest in your approach with this debate
    3) You lost the argument.

    Q.E.D

    Signed,
    Gaby

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 4:07 pm
  135. LOL !!

    Most entertaining Blog 2012.

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 4:14 pm
  136. Gabriel,

    You are lying again.
    You write:
    “When AP suggested I go and get this Rabbinical Certificate so that I get automatic “Citizenship”, he didn’t put any Caveats about me being Sincere about the Conversion. And according to you, by Law, I would officially be called a Jew- IRRESPECTIVE of what is in my heart!”

    That is the whole point which you are trying to run away from. As you quote, AP never said that you have to be a Jew to get citizenship in Israel. He said you need the certificate of conversion. And he never said that by law you would be called a Jew, he said that according to the definition in the Law of Return you could get a citizenship. You are trying to avoid accepting the definition that being a Jew is a state of mind.

    And again you avoid answering the simple question.
    Is being a Jew defined by a person’s state of mind?
    Just pick:
    1) Yes
    2) No

    What is so difficult? Why are you so spineless when it comes to answering this simple question? And why did you lie above, saying you would answer my question after I answered yours?

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 4:22 pm
  137. AIG:

    Read
    https://qifanabki.com/2012/03/08/satire-the-syrian-revolution/#comment-34926

    Again.

    It is your own words.

    If you would like to retract your words. Fine- go ahead and retract them. Maybe beg and plead with QN to erase the post- as if it were never written. But your words are clear.

    With this Rabbinical Certificate, the Israeli government would

    1) Consider you a Jew
    and
    2) Grant you Citizenship to Israel

    That’s all there is to it. It’s as simple as that.

    Take this “State of Mind” side discussion and have it with your fellow Jews as you walk through the Ancient land of Israel. Use it as an emotional Koombaya moment to build camaraderie with the other Jews. Sing Hava Nagila together. You know “Community building stuff”. It is not relevant to the discussion. What I think about “What is a Jew” is not important. I am a Nothing. Actually, I don’t care what a Jew is, I never (until this bizarre thread) even thought about it much. I wish Jews nothing but the best in this world. My entire music collection is replete with the works of phenomenal artists (Menuhin, Perlman, Ashkenazy)- all Jewish. My bookshelves are replete with scientific books written by the most brilliant Jews. But I don’t care what makes them tick, and how they define themselves. That’s their business.

    You lost the argument, plain and simple. Get over it.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 4:38 pm
  138. And why did you lie above, saying you would answer my question after I answered yours?

    I didn’t lie. I answered the question. See #727.

    The answer to your question is (1) and (2). Since it is both an Esoteric concept as well as a Legal one.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 4:46 pm
  139. AIG and AP could be Hezbollah plants on this blog:)

    They’re too thick to be real Jews.

    I’ve always equated Jews with Genius of which these two obviously genetically cannot belong.

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 4:56 pm
  140. Gabriel,

    Lying again, I said that the Israeli government would report the Nazi as a Jew but that he is not a Jew.

    Show me where I said that the state would consider you a Jew if you converted. I said it would consider you a Jew for the purpose of the Law of Return, that is all. Which means that according to the definition of the Law of Return, you would get a citizenship. And I explained that the Israeli government cannot read minds and that is why they needed some definition for the Law of Return. But you can’t get your narrow mind about the fact that this is NOT a definition of a Jew. It is a definition of who can get citizenship to Israel. So simple but the distinction keeps eluding you. Or for some reason you are not willing to admit to this simple distinction.

    “But I don’t care what makes them tick, and how they define themselves.”

    Your biggest lie so far. You have been arguing about this for hundreds of posts and now you say you don’t care about how Jews define themselves.

    “The answer to your question is (1) and (2). Since it is both an Esoteric concept as well as a Legal one.”

    Who can get Israeli citizenship is a legal question. Who is a Jew is a different question altogether. And anyway, since when how people self identify can ever be a matter of law? This is one of your craziest answers by far. And what is an esoteric concept anyway? And how can how millions of people define themselves be esoteric? You are now starting to invent your own private language.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 5:07 pm
  141. Monolith,

    For a person who can’t articulate a simple argument, you sure have strong opinions.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 5:10 pm
  142. AIG,

    For a person that ties his life to a tribe, rather than the worldwide human condition … you have pretty weak ones.

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 5:17 pm
  143. Quick poll of the forum…

    Is it me? Or is this guy missing a few wires? I don’t know if I am in the Twilight Zone.

    AIG:

    Let’s try this again.

    Show me where I said that the state would consider you a Jew if you converted.

    Read:

    https://qifanabki.com/2012/03/08/satire-the-syrian-revolution/#comment-34926

    Better yet, so that you repeat this again and again and again. Print it out and Pin it to your Forehead. So you don’t miss it.

    I will copy and paste it here:

    I gave you an explicit answer, you just refuse to accept it. If the Israeli government knows the person is a Nazi it reports him as a Nazi, if it doesn’t, it reports him as a Jew. Yes, the Nazi in this case has succeeded in fooling the Israeli government into thinking he is a Jew when he is not.

    The “When he is not” is not relevant, because the Israeli government doesn’t know that. Nor do you, or the other 5 Million Jews in Israel. He has the Certificate and he has fooled the government to think he IS a Jew, even though he really is not.

    If he came up to you in a Cafe in Tel Aviv, and told you he was a Jew, even you would say he is a Jew. You can’t read his mind, or his heart. He is what he tells you he is, and what the Israeli government officially tells you he is.

    Unless of course you lied in your response, and the Israeli government does not tick the “Jew” box next to his name (who knows maybe they have another hidden, “Wait-and-see-for-now-we-will-call-him-a-Jew-for-Statistics-Purposes” box).

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 5:20 pm
  144. Gabriel,

    You are really losing it. How can the “when he is not” be irrelevant unless you really think that because the Israeli government thinks someone is a Jew he is a Jew? Just say that you believe the following nonsense: If the Israeli government thinks you are a Jew then you are a Jew.

    Don’t you see how stupid your answer is? The US government asks you if you are a terrorist when you apply for a visa. If a terrorist tells them he is not a terrorist by providing this affirmation, does that make him not a terrorist because the US government does not consider him a terrorist when it gave him the visa? Or if someone wants to join the army and lies about being underage, does the fact that the army accepts him make him the right age just because he was able to fool the army? Of course not.

    You keep rejecting the obvious, that being a Jew is a state of mind and only the person can know if he is really a Jew or not. Why you want to reject this, I don’t know.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 5:31 pm
  145. “the worldwide human condition”

    The excuse of the do nothings that can’t even fix their own home but worry about “the worldwide human condition”. Escapism to the nth degree.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 5:33 pm
  146. I give up.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 5:35 pm
  147. Said the wise Jew that went on to bring the world and humanity deep wisdom .

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 5:37 pm
  148. AIG:

    Are you a Jew?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 5:45 pm
  149. “Said the wise Jew that went on to bring the world and humanity deep wisdom”

    No, I am a simple Jew that knows that charity begins at home, and those people that talk about “the world wide human condition” while their children go hungry (metaphorically speaking) are really irresponsible charlatans. Also, there is nothing deep about this obvious observation. If you can’t implement your “ideals” in your own home, what business do you have speaking about anything “worldwide”? It is just escapism, a way of ignoring your own problems.

    Posted by AIG | April 27, 2012, 5:46 pm
  150. I am a simple Jew

    How do I know you’re a Jew?

    That you are not just saying it?

    That you are not fooling me?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 6:16 pm
  151. AIG,

    I am 21 years old.

    You are a heavily armed nuclear Jew that insists on the right of the Jewish/Israeli state by might … and not by intelligent 21st Century right.

    Posted by Monolith | April 27, 2012, 6:17 pm
  152. Fighting Zionist Hegemony, One Post at a Time

    If you can’t implement your “ideals” in your own home, what business do you have speaking about anything “worldwide”? It is just escapism, a way of ignoring your own problems.

    AIG,

    You’ve made your point. Again. What a waste of Jewish energy!

    Anyway, I’m still trying to find/Google the nazi “Jew” who “faked” his conversion in order to bring down the great and mighty nuclear armed Joo- nation so that the down-trodden arabs can finally live in peace.

    But, we can only hope (and pray [in a Muslim sense]).

    Maybe Gabriel can be the arab world’s next savior (messiah, aka “Twelfth Imam”) and begin his mission as the “converted Jew in Jihadist Clothing” and bring down the Zionist Entity once and for all.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 27, 2012, 6:59 pm
  153. Jew? What is this?

    Posted by 3issa | April 27, 2012, 7:03 pm
  154. Kew? What is this?

    3issa,

    If you live in Lebanon, Wikipedia says you have about 20 – 40 people who you can ask personally. But, you may get varying answers. The GOI has a formula, but I’m not sure if you recognize the Zionist State’s laws. Anyway, I hope you don’t go bonkers if you don’t like the answer.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 27, 2012, 7:11 pm
  155. AP do you believe in God?

    Posted by 3issa | April 27, 2012, 7:16 pm
  156. AP…

    Still waiting…

    Who is a Jew?

    According to AP, who may or may not be a Jew, …

    The GOI has a formula,

    According to AIG, who may or may not be a Jew…

    the following nonsense: If the Israeli government thinks you are a Jew then you are a Jew.

    Ladies and Gentlemen: We are at an impasse.

    We don’t know who the “Jew” Is. And when we find two people who self-proclaim to be Jews… they can’t seem to agree.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 7:19 pm
  157. AP…

    Anyway, I’m still trying to find/Google the nazi “Jew” who “faked” his conversion in order to bring down the great and mighty nuclear armed Joo- nation

    You can always consult Wikipedia about Nazis who use the Law of Return…

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrol_35

    Also…..

    http://www.haaretz.com/news/interior-minister-i-ll-consider-revoking-neo-nazis-citizenship-1.229076

    You were saying?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 7:28 pm
  158. Hahahahahah……..

    This thread has been quite educational for me. To think, I knew none of this before!

    Eitam stated that Israel has become “a haven for people who hate Israel, hate Jews, and exploit the Law of Return to act on this hatred.”

    It really is like I am in the Twilight Zone.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 7:30 pm
  159. Ladies and Gentlemen: We are at an impasse.

    We don’t know who the “Jew” Is.

    Gabriel,

    Why don’t you speak for yourself. “Ladies and Gentlemen” probably don’t suffer from the same malady as you do.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 27, 2012, 7:33 pm
  160. AP…

    As with your brother-in-Law example, who you have yet to tell us if he’s faithful, you really should not speculate as to what Ladies and Gentlemen probably do suffer or do not suffer from.

    Let them speak for themselves.

    As for you, we are still waiting on a response about your Brother in Law, or an apology. Something. I drafted 2 possible apologies for you. Just copy and paste the relevant one!

    Any chance you can get him to come to this forum to add some interesting perspective?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 27, 2012, 7:37 pm
  161. Enough, please. 🙂

    I am traveling and have to wade through 30 new messages each time I check my email on my phone. Can we give it a rest for the weekend?

    I promise a new post on Monday. Just defended my dissertation, so I’ll have time for blogging again.

    Posted by Qifa Nabki | April 27, 2012, 7:43 pm
  162. AIG,

    #673…take it easy buddy, I was not insinuating anything. I think these arguments are getting out of hand. Reminds me of a stoned philosophy 101 class discussing what is real. You guys are going to end up arguing the space between the words.

    Anywayysss, my point about the Druze of the Golan or the people of the Golan whomever they might be, and yes I’ve read the article, was to highlight a interesting piece of the puzzle in relation to how Israel treats non-Jews in comparison to Lebanon’s treatment to Jews and whatever you guys are having hissy fits over.
    I know that the Druze in Israel feel relatively safe, can pursue whatever careers they choose, benefit from the Government etc etc. In Syria, the Druze were not allowed to own a drivers license until the mid 90’s.
    But neither Israel or Syria are tripping over another to better the lives of these people. It is all political. Assad allows them the freedom to ‘be’ in exchange for allegiance. Israel, well because the strategic significance of the Golan Heights and they make good felafels.
    In any case, Interesting area of study for future regional relations.

    Posted by Maverick | April 27, 2012, 7:51 pm
  163. QN

    Ya3tik l 3afi. Finally aye! Well done , now you can concentrate on whats most important and write up fresh posts before the phaylasoofs and linguistic mis-interpreters take over your blog.

    Posted by Maverick | April 27, 2012, 7:54 pm
  164. QN,

    If you delete this thread you’ll probably free up a few Gigabytes of HD space.

    Your ISP may offer you a discount.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 27, 2012, 7:58 pm
  165. Can I be a Jewish princess?

    Posted by lally | April 27, 2012, 9:49 pm
  166. Enter agent provocateur……
    ………scene 74, Act 42 of The Taming of the Jew.

    Posted by Maverick | April 28, 2012, 3:03 am
  167. #766 hihihihi

    Posted by 3issa | April 28, 2012, 7:28 am
  168. @765

    …and all this time I thought you were…: P

    Posted by danny | April 28, 2012, 7:45 am
  169. @765

    Sorry just a clarification: Did you want to be a Jewish American Princess (JAP). 😀

    Posted by danny | April 28, 2012, 7:47 am
  170. @769.

    I would prefer the American version, of course. Better shopping opportunities.)

    Posted by lally | April 28, 2012, 9:30 am
  171. lally,

    Being a JAP doesn’t seem like a good fit for you. You would no longer be whining about Israel and ignoring the plight of arabs in other countries.

    You may want to re-think your plan.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 28, 2012, 10:24 am
  172. Lally, I say go for it, i’m buying, if that’s what it takes to convert you lol

    on another note now,

    Congratulations Dr. QN, you did it !

    We are now gonna start counting on you for solutions including a baseball bat for what Maverick put it Maverickly “the phaylasoofs and linguistic mis-interpreters” and i will add well interpreters.

    We need solutions people not revenge driven sēmantiká. we must all by now agree that we are all proportionaly or not so proportionaly effed up

    Posted by Vulcan | April 28, 2012, 12:28 pm
  173. AP, The Arab Spring turned into the Muslim nightmare.

    Posted by Vulcan | April 28, 2012, 12:54 pm
  174. Vulcan,

    Well, do the Arabs go back to “strong men”? As dark as it is now, the growing pains will continue until the people get educated and liberal.

    Like most of the forum members here.

    Somehow, the ME has to become the next China, where industries set up shop and build products using cheap labor. If the average GDP is $5000 now, there’s room to improve upon that very quickly.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 28, 2012, 1:37 pm
  175. AIG,

    What is your take on the recent statements by YUval Diskin?

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4221627,00.html

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 28, 2012, 1:56 pm
  176. #771. Dear heart,

    Are you demanding that, if I come to live with you in your Palace, I can’ t complain about the comparatively lousy shopping in Tel Aviv and have to pay lip service to caring deeply about the “plight of arabs in other countries”?

    NO JAP worth her DNA would ever agree to those terms and you know it, AP!

    Posted by lally | April 28, 2012, 2:12 pm
  177. @776

    You are a worthy JAP!! Now what’s your favorite “wine”(sic)…I wanna go to Florida??? 😛

    Posted by danny | April 28, 2012, 2:26 pm
  178. Holy CRAPS!! I nailed it!

    Posted by danny | April 28, 2012, 2:26 pm
  179. Oh, and another thing AP. Just in case your dear leader AIG neglects to tell you what to think about Yuval Diskin’s shocking statements, Barak Ravid’s take SHOULD be a big head’s up:

    “When you put Ex-Shin Bet chief Diskin’s comments on Netanyahu and Barak together with Ex-Mossad chief Dagan about the 2 – it’s really scary”
    http://twitter.com/#!/search/barak%20ravid

    (Actually, this is very serious business. Israeli security types are damn scared about the prospect of the blowback from regional warfare triggered by an attack on Iran.)

    Posted by lally | April 28, 2012, 2:37 pm
  180. #777 danny.

    Florida? What?

    Are you angling for a meet-up with fellow expat Vulcan in order to schmooze some of his Cuban cigars?????

    Meh.

    Posted by lally | April 28, 2012, 2:46 pm
  181. Oy Lally ! lol

    Posted by Vulcan | April 28, 2012, 3:51 pm
  182. Looooolll lalllyyyy…

    I just got back from Cuba. I don’t smoke Cubans though. It’s overrated. CAO for me.

    Posted by danny | April 28, 2012, 3:59 pm
  183. QN:

    Congratulations on the Defense and your upcoming position!

    Lally#776.

    Ouch…. with a T before it, and an E after.

    AP:

    My oh my. Are you trying to get this thread censored?!

    Everyone else…

    Do you suppose I am one of the educated and liberal “Arabs” who will usher in the True Arab spring. Or just another Nutjob Islamo-Fascist Hidden Imam-turned-Messiah?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 28, 2012, 4:33 pm
  184. Dear Leader AIG is apparently unavailable, but I’ll brave the odds of being sent to a reeducation cam^W^W ‘reality’ tv show and express an opinion before him: The entire thing smacks of ‘hold me’ rhetoric and/or politics.

    Israeli secret service chiefs don’t usually talk so much – I’m not sure Diskin would even have access to some of the info he’s talking about (he was head of Shabak – the _internal_ security service). One should ask therefor why he’s speaking. After all, he can’t possibly hope to influence the government with this kind of rhetoric. So I suspect something else is involved. This does serve to increase the pressure on the U.S./EU side [look! they’re crazy! You gotta do something ASAP!] and ease Diskin’s entrance into Kadima/Labour if he wishes to [in the security blanket role].

    Posted by Y. | April 28, 2012, 4:38 pm
  185. Y.,

    Diskin also stated:

    Diskin also derided Barak’s assessment that Bashar Assad would soon lose power in Syria, saying that the Assad regime would survive unless there was western intervention.

    It seems to me the man has some sort of axe to grind.

    http://www.timesofisrael.com/ex-intelligence-chief-diskin-says-netanyahu-barak-not-fit-to-lead-israel-and-wrong-on-iran/

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 28, 2012, 4:57 pm
  186. Are you demanding that, if I come to live with you in your Palace, I can’ t complain about the comparatively lousy shopping in Tel Aviv and have to pay lip service to caring deeply about the “plight of arabs in other countries”?

    NO JAP worth her DNA would ever agree to those terms and you know it, AP!

    Lally,

    That is why I didn’t marry a JAP. She doesn’t whine about Israel, she doesn’t whine about shopping in Tel Aviv, and, like you, she doesn’t whine about the “plight of arabs in other countries”. She’s batting a 1000. You, OTOH, seem to be batting 333.

    So let’s see, if we don’t about who’s a Joo, and if we don’t whine about Israel, and we don’t talk about the dismal state the arab world is in, what do you suppose we should talk about??

    Do you want to talk about American politics? Are you goning to vote for Barry Obama?

    Maybe QN has some idears.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 28, 2012, 5:07 pm
  187. AP,

    Maybe, or maybe not. In truth, I doubt Barak or Diskin have a real clue about Assad’s regime’s position. I’m not sure Assad does! These revolution/insurrection thingys are alas hard to measure.

    I don’t see how Assad can subdue the uprising without direct foreign assistance. I don’t see how the uprising can overthrow Assad, at least so long as Assad is supported economically (Iran/Iraq can probably afford it). I expect Syria to continue to de facto disintegrate until some country interferes from outside directly or by proxy. Perhaps several simultaneous interferences. Then the ‘fun’ begins.

    Posted by Y. | April 28, 2012, 5:17 pm
  188. Y.,

    Unfortunately, and this is just my opinion, the West is happy the ME is bleeding internally and not exporting their “wares”. The Iran-Iraq war was no different.

    My beef, as a Jewish-American, is that the Jewish community and our representatives in congress would prefer to work with a pro-democracy group in Syria to help over-throw the Assad and his family. Sort of like what we were hoping for with the “Iraqi National Congress” when Iraq was being butchered by Saddam.

    But in Syria’s case, I don’t see or haven’t heard about any pro-democracy groups that have been courting the West.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | April 28, 2012, 5:44 pm
  189. #773 Vulcan. One word: ridiculous.

    Posted by 3issa | April 28, 2012, 8:53 pm
  190. 3issa, you are right, the Islamic parties wining majorities across the region are all Secular Democratic Doves and examples of Tolerance, Human Rights for all and respect for women’s rights ofcourse. good luck with Shari3a Law coming soon to a theater near you.

    Posted by Vulcan | April 29, 2012, 5:15 am
  191. Wow.

    On the one end of the spectrum, we have people who’s consciences are not troubled by dead babies. On the other end, we have people itching for different interferences so that the *fun* can begin.

    Yes, this is all lots and lots of fun. WoopDeeDoo- Fun Fun Fun!

    AP is itching to find some Pro-Democracy groups in Syria so that he can help out. It’s nice to know that Syria is high up on his Caring Scale. Maybe he should go volunteer with the Free Syria Army.

    AP, I know you were trying hard to Google find those Nazis that “exploit” the Law of Return and go to Israel to bring down the “Joo-Nation”. But now that you have learned of their existence.. what happened? Has the Cat got your tongue?

    Posted by Gabriel | April 29, 2012, 10:41 am
  192. Gabriel,

    Learn to id sarcasm (and some reading comprehension while you’re at it) – hint the apostrophes are there for a reason.

    Posted by Y. | April 29, 2012, 11:12 am
  193. thanks y,

    I didn’t iss the sarcasm.
    Being sarcastic about mayhem and peoples lives (other peoples lives that is), is generally inappropriate.

    Posted by Gabriel | April 29, 2012, 11:28 am
  194. Laws.

    That is something the United States regrettably has done a direly poor job implementing throughout the last decade and circumvented for reasons that remain unanswered and unaccounted for to this day.

    It took destruction and death on a massive scale for the world to bring forwards the United Nations and its charters.

    When the United States will no longer be able to pay its debts, it will be China’s “lawful” right to take over the governance of that country. Same for Germany and many European countries.

    Then what?

    Death and destruction and a renegotiation on laws?

    Posted by Monolith | April 29, 2012, 11:39 am
  195. You can’t blame people for taking law into their own hands by whatever “right” is available to them, when modern 20th Century International laws and rights no longer hold water.

    Posted by Monolith | April 29, 2012, 11:44 am
  196. Shari3a law, Jewish Law, Wahhabi law or Christ’s laws … will most certainly take prevalence over that most disgusting of all laws.

    Corporate Law.

    Posted by Monolith | April 29, 2012, 12:03 pm
  197. #790 Vulcan,

    Fine, you are not a big fan of Shari3a (btw Shari3a means “Islamic Law”,,, no need to add another “Law”…leave that to Fox News anchors). And you are neither a fan of the Islamic-oriented parties gaining power in the region. Fine.

    But the question is: do you respect the will of the peoples?

    You’ll tell me yes, but when you say that these peoples are voting to get as soon as possible a “Muslim Nightmare” in their lives, you are not respecting the will of the people. Hence the “ridiculous”.

    *

    AP, what happened? Why didn’t you approve Vulcan statement? Ohhh, maybe the approval is so obvious there, that you didn’t even bother :o)

    Posted by 3issa | April 29, 2012, 2:21 pm
  198. Pondering about proportional representation in our country during the next elections might pave the way for proportional representation in the world within the United Nations.

    Food for thought to say the least 🙂

    Posted by Monolith | April 29, 2012, 2:48 pm
  199. After the alphabet, now its the proportional representation!

    fini9i power!!!

    just kidding…

    Posted by 3issa | April 29, 2012, 3:11 pm
  200. Question remains … should it be faith based, or on “national” population?

    Here’s a run down on faiths in the world:

    Christians … 33% …
    Muslims … 21 %
    Non-religious … 16%
    Hinduism … 14%

    or National Population

    China … 1.3billion
    India … 1.2billion
    US … 313 million
    Indonesia … 237 million
    Brazil … 192 million
    Pakistan … 179 million
    Nigeria … 162million
    Russia … 143 million
    Bangladesh … 142 million
    Japan … 127 million

    More foor for thought.

    Good night.

    Posted by Monolith | April 29, 2012, 3:21 pm

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