Of Maps and Men

Posted by Qifa Nabki ⋅ August 13, 2014 ⋅ 810 Comments

Filed Under Iraq, ISIS

islamicmap A few months ago, my friend Joshua Landis wrote an essay for this blog called “The Great Sorting Out,” which generated one of the more interesting discussions we’ve hosted. I’ve been thinking about Joshua’s argument ever since, and trying to make sense of what I find to be right and wrong about it. This piece at The New Yorker tries to address obliquely some of those issues, but perhaps there is more to say in a later essay as well.

Here’s the first paragraph or two. Come back here to comment, if you wish.

Iraq and Syria’s Poetic Borders

The late historian and critic Tony Judt once described Europe before the First World War as “an intricate, interwoven tapestry of overlapping languages, religions, communities and nations.” After the period between 1914 and 1945, as a result of war, ethnic cleansing, and border drawing, a new, more stable Europe emerged, in which “almost everybody now lived in their own country, among their own people.” Thirty million were uprooted and dispersed by Stalin and Hitler between 1939 and 1943, a process that was repeated after the defeat of the Axis armies. Germans, Poles, Balts, Croats, Ukrainians, Hungarians, Slovaks, Romanians, Turks, and many others were shunted around the continent. The result was “a Europe of nation states more ethnically homogenous than ever before.”

Is a similar process of nation formation taking place in Iraq and Syria today? As in Europe, borders were drawn all over the Fertile Crescent following the First World War, and many of those borders have now become notional abstractions as millions of refugees flee conflict zones in Mosul, Aleppo, Homs, and Raqqa. The demographic map of the region is in flux, and analysts have wasted little time in declaring that the rise of the Islamic State in Iraq and al-Sham augurs the death of Sykes-Picot, the British-French treaty that established many of the Middle East’s modern borders, its creations now unstitched and exposed in their artificiality. (continue)

Some responses from readers:

Nadim Shehadi:

Very interesting question QN, put in another way: are we in a period of nation formation like Europe was almost a hundred years ago? Or are we in a period of nation dismantling like Europe is going through now? this begs a different set of questions: are different regions subject to different trends or are there global phenomena or fashions in ideas which find variations in different regions?

So according to one sort of thinking, the Levant would be lagging behind Europe and what we see today is the Levant catching up with Europe and dividing into tidy and neatly organised ethnically homogeneous states after the evil or ignorant colonialists drew the map in a rather messy way mixing Shiias with Sunnis, Kurds, Maronites and others producing such a disordered region.

I am of the school that thinks that history does not move in such an orderly manner and the primary movers are ideas rather than material or concrete elements. The 20th century state as we know it is being dismantled globally and it is not as homogeneous as we might think it is, even in Europe.

At the end of 2011 I evaluated the year as a turning point where the 20th century was being dismantled and that there was a link between all the riots we saw that year on a global. http://nytweekly.com/columns/intelarchives/01-13-12/

Lebanon skipped the 20th century and was considered a failed state by its standards, it may now be ahead of the game while the rest of the region dismantles what they successfully achieved and have to get used to the idea of living without it. Lebanon spent most of the 20th century arguing about whether to become a ‘proper state’ or not.

Jim Reilly

Syria, Lebanon and Iraq were ideas or concepts before they became states. This was the reverse of many other state-formations, where ideas (of France, Britain, Egypt, etc.) were molded to fit political faits accomplis. The sudden creation of the post-World War I states meant that these ideas had to be given content and material form on short notice, in a haphazard fashion, and in unfavorable circumstances. The *idea* of Syria or Iraq was more attractive than the reality of the Assad family fiefdom and Saddam Hussein’s rule-by-Tikrit. And so (helped along, again, by unfavorable regional and international circumstances including foreign invasion) they both fall apart.

Benjamin Thomas White:

Josh’s earlier post was thought-provoking, but problematic. Notwithstanding his statement in the comments section that “I didn’t use the word “primordial” and I wouldn’t”, the argument rests on the assumption that the ‘nationalities’ it describes were there, waiting to be disentangled (Winston Churchill’s word for it) and sorted into nation-state boxes.
It also seems to veer into anachronism when it states that the Germans expelled from eastern Europe “had lived in these countries stretching from Poland in the north to the Ukraine and Romania in the South for hundreds of years”: this seems to assume that Poland, Ukraine, Romania, and the countries in between had actually been ‘countries’—ie, independent states—for hundreds of years. They, and Germany, had all emerged in the period since 1870.

If we want to understand what happened then, and be in a position to draw meaningful comparisons with what’s happening now, it’s at least as useful to start with the internal development and external clashes of states, and see how that affected populations and the way they understood themselves. Doing that enables us to see just how much effort states had to put, not just into massacring or expelling populations they came to consider as disloyal, foreign, or unwanted, but also into hammering populations they wanted into ‘nations’. This was done by means ranging from the schoolroom to aeriel bombardment: it’s still within, or barely beyond, living memory that teachers would beat Breton schoolchildren for speaking Breton and not French in the classroom, and Turkey’s attempts to persuade Kurds that they’re ‘mountain Turks’ have been extremely brutal into the much more recent past. (For that matter, repressive states have probably done as much as Kurdish nationalists to persuade the religiously diverse speakers of two related languages that they share one ‘Kurdish’ identity—by no means a finished process.)

Of course, the populations persecuted or expelled by one panicking dynastic empire or emergent nation-state often ended up in a state that wanted them—but this doesn’t mean that that state was simply ‘theirs’ or that they belonged to it, wa khalas. West Germany had to do a lot of work to make expellees from eastern Europe lose their Polish or Czech accents; into the 1970s Anatolian Greeks in Greece were still marrying among themselves, and not with ‘Greek’ Greeks (among whom the term ‘turkospouroi’, ‘Turkish seed’ was often used to describe the transferees), while the work of persuading Greek-speaking Cretans, say, whose ancestors had converted to Islam several centuries earlier that they were and always had been ‘Turks’ and must speak Turkish took the Turkish Republic generations—during which time some of the most emphatic missionaries of the Turkish national project were from families which only a generation or two earlier had been Circassian, Daghestani, or Balkan. More recently, post-unification Germany often used some pretty crude criteria when deciding which Russian-speaking immigrants from Kazakhstan to accept as ‘Germans’. For many modern national groups, it took the shared experience of mass displacement, occurring at one or several points across the period Josh discusses, to accelerate—if not begin—the process of political self-definition as a ‘nation’.

So Tony Judt’s point that in Europe after the late 1940s “almost everybody now lived in their own country, among their own people”, like some of Josh’s arguments, seems misguided, unless it’s hedged about in the original by qualifications (which it may be, as Judt was usually pretty sharp about these things). It ignores too much history. And I haven’t even dwelt on just how debatable it really is that the post-1945 European nation-states were mononational. In France, durable immigration from colonial possessions had already begun before the war, but the much larger part of France’s immigrant population—which by 1930 was proportionately the largest in Europe, despite France’s status as the locus classicus of the nation-state—was from other European countries: Russians, Italians, Belgians, Poles, Spaniards, Portuguese, and others, all in numbers ranging from many tens of thousands to a million (not counting those who were naturalized as French).

You might think that further east, especially east of the Iron Curtain, immigration was less a feature of post-1945 nation-states—and perhaps that’s true. But the extremely large numbers of people of each state’s ‘nationality’ living outside the state mean that it’s no truer to say that “almost everybody now lived in their own country, among their own people”. When over half a million Poles moved to Britain after Poland’s accession to the EU a decade ago, it was widely heralded (or condemned) as the largest and fastest wave of immigration in British history—but something like 700,000 Poles, mostly people who’d served in the Allied armies and their families, moved into Britain in the late 1940s rather than going, or being sent, ‘back’ to the new-look, partly relocated Poland. This influx dwarfed the ‘Commonwealth migrations’ that began at around the same time (while Britain, incidentally, continued to be a major exporter of emigrants in this period, to Australia, the USA, South Africa). A lot of Poles lived in Poland—’in their own country, among their own people’—in 1950, some of whom had out of desire or necessity passed for German during the Nazi occupation. But the number of Poles who didn’t live in Poland—the post-1945 Poland whose existence as a modern national state, albeit on a somewhat different tract of land, could only be traced back to 1919 (the same year that Alsace and Lorraine became ‘French’ after fifty years of being ‘German’)—was probably in the millions: certainly over a million between Britain and France, let alone the US, Canada, and so on.

Apologies for the very long comment: this has obviously been on my mind since I read the original post. The point is that the twentieth-century European experience (or the nineteenth-century Balkan experience) of state formation and population displacement doesn’t offer any neat lessons for what’s happening in the Levan now. The seemingly ‘solid’ post-1945 European nation-states—and, pace Nadim, I’m not convinced that they’re being dismantled right now, though they’re certainly being re-tooled—depended for their stability on American and Soviet dominance, military and diplomatic, and at least in western Europe on superpower financial backing too; more, I’d argue, than on their debatably ‘mononational’ character. The EU has—as it was intended to—provided a supranational framework for them since the cold war ended, as Alan Millward argued, though it’s had its problems recently. In the Levant at the moment there’s no prospect of either a stable, superpower-backed ‘freezing’ of the state system (one reason it’s collapsing) or of a locally-based regional framework emerging. Everything is up for grabs, including control of individual states. The clashes over and between states will be understood by the populations of the region in different ways and will affect them in different ways; different actors will try out different ideologies and practices in order to mobilize support—whether that’s machine-gunning Yazidis in the name of the Caliphate, barrel-bombing cities in the name of Syrian or Arab unity, or, heaven help us, attempting to maintain a national or international dialogue for the sake of peace and democracy.

In the meantime, QN’s short and poetic article reminds us that mental and cultural geographies don’t depend only on the existence of a state authority, and aren’t formed only by violence.

Discussion

810 thoughts on “Of Maps and Men”

Sykes-Picot Alert: Manny, Moe and Jack “leading” the ME into the ground

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 21, 2014, 8:52 am
What’s the stance on Psychology and Psychologists in the Arab Islamic world?

Posted by Ray | August 21, 2014, 11:47 am
My apologies, QN. You are, of course, correct.

Posted by Bad Vilbel | August 21, 2014, 12:23 pm
Ray,

I think the stance is that when confronted by inner demons (Zionism, jews, colonialism, Sykes-Picot, GWB, Obama, and captialism), the best thing to do is kill yourself and the people surrounding you.

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 21, 2014, 12:25 pm
Oh Dear! Is that what’s going through your mind AP?

Have you talked this over with your … ?

Posted by Ray | August 21, 2014, 2:06 pm
Well, well. There is news emerging that the Syrian “opposition” promised journos and NGO workers that they would be safe in “opposition” held areas then traded them to IS.

Foley was held by the Dawood Brigade:

http://www.ibtimes.com/james-foley-allegedly-used-token-allegiance-group-joined-isis-166427

Posted by lally | August 21, 2014, 2:34 pm
Lally, your link does not work.

These Journalists, John McCain, and British Jihadists shared the same safe houses in Turkey before crossing over the border only to be captured by their bunk mates.

http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/men-killed-james-foley

ISIS was not created in a vacuum in 2014, many posters have alluded to Al Qaeda’s strength and influence, and in Morocco in 2012 we had the FSA spokeman defending these Jihadi groups because they were the best at confronting the Assad Regime. You reap what you sow

Posted by tamer k | August 21, 2014, 2:49 pm
Visionary former Leader Mr Khatib,

The decision to consider a party that is fighting the regime as a terrorist party needs to be reviewed,” Khatib told the meeting in Morocco. “We might disagree with some parties and their ideas and their political and ideological vision. But we affirm that all the guns of the rebels are aimed at overthrowing the tyrannical criminal regime.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/dec/12/us-syrian-moaz-al-khatib-opposition-coalition

Posted by tamer k | August 21, 2014, 2:57 pm
Tamer K

Try this one:

http://www.ibtimes.com/james-foley-allegedly-used-token-allegiance-group-joined-isis-1664272#.U_Y1MxPPHWA.twitter

If that doesn’t work, I have copied the article.so let please let me know.

Posted by lally | August 21, 2014, 4:37 pm
Lally,

Great article, it just goes to demonstrate that Obama’s policy of trying to separate the good groups from the bad groups is difficult.

Dempsey came out and said what we all already knew. We can’t fight ISIS in Iraq and act like they don’t exist in Syria.

Posted by tamer k | August 21, 2014, 5:05 pm
ohhh puleaseeeeeeee

Radicalism evolved. It was much a by-product of Regime belligerence.

I’m of the opinion that had the FSA from the outset, were aided by weaponry, funds and advisor’s, they at least would have looked more like the Kurdish forces in Iraq. There would have been many more defections as well.

Posted by Maverick | August 21, 2014, 6:33 pm
Get rid of Bashar, Nasrallah and Suleimani, all terrorism will disappear. Obama relies on a team of incompetent foreign policy advisers and he himself has no skills in this area.

Despite my initial dislike to Khatib, I must congratulate him for saying the obvious. Neverheless, he is a non-entity.

Posted by Mustap | August 21, 2014, 6:55 pm
Maverick,

The Kurdish forces are of a similar ideology, faith, language and culture but most of all they have the same goal to unite them.

FSA is a coalition of islamists (different shades and goals), democracy seeking groups, Qatari funded members, Saudi funded members. It was doomed from the start, radicalism was sowed from the beginning of this conflict, it was doomed the second Qatar or Saudi had to intervene to elect their leaders.

Moreover, I implore you to reconsider your opinion just by looking at how our support was for naught when we look at Libya. All of the air cover, political and military support in the world could not save that failed state.

Posted by tamer k | August 21, 2014, 7:02 pm
Maverick…Ditto. However the end game from the beginning was to sabotage the other using different factions. Remember Lebanon? As far as the KSA, Qatar, Turkey, they all tried to be the kingmaker. IMO KSA and Qatar are still funding the ISIS to balance out the field. The conflict is between Iran and KSA. Turkey is a turncoat. It seems in the struggle for some kind of supremacy in the region the dumb desert folk are being “martyred”

Posted by danny | August 21, 2014, 7:18 pm
Syrian pilots are now facing one of two choices: death by firing squad or death anyway if they fly. Three pilots executed by firing squad for refusing the second option:

http://all4syria.info/Archive/163309

Their warplanes are beginning to fall off from the sky.
This is due to newly acquired anti aircraft weapons developed recently by the rebels with the help of a defected electronic techie from Aleppo.

Posted by Mustap | August 21, 2014, 8:26 pm
I think the unfortunate aspect to the debate about maps and men is that one can believe the premise that there is some generalizable basis for how States/Nations/Federation/Union are formed and moved. One theory in anthropological circles goes primarily towards one thing: power (see Michel Foucault). In effect, actions that would change boundaries come as expressions to control others in order to exact what one wants (‘national security interest’ is a nice catch-phrase). Hence, centuries have shown nations/countries/bounded areas ebb and flow in design over time as the powerful controller’s prominence rises and fades.

I would add to that a more traditional view of what might drive political bodies to develop changes in formal boundaries: requirements for resources. I would argue these all intertwine to create drivers that end up changing boundaries through actions, such as war or, in prior times, political marriages. I suspect if we look at the post-Roman empire landscape, the landscape across their empire shifted in regional forms over the centuries–degrees, maybe, based more/less on the extant characteristics of the inhabitants in the locale. I think that is effectively where we are now with the Middle East. If we step back and view the landscape from a millennia time frame, the shifting will probably show many changes that make it seem continuously in flux. A few decades view, probably makes things seems like the the ebbs and flows are something quite different.

In thinking about laying the odds of how the ME landscape could be moving forward over, say, the next 50 years: I would begin with the notion of exerting power from a narrow in group focus (i.e., extended families and/or tribes) and then expand from there to peoples with of common cultural elements (ancestry, religion, affiliations) that would provide the ability to exert power to ensure safety and control resources (and in Gaza/West Bank case seem like humans with freedom). If external entities stay out of the way in drawing lines, and allow the area to organically shift, I suspect the 50 year view would be one of constant change along those dimensions, and I suspect Israel, Syria, and Iraq to be three locales that have the best chance (almost certainty) of different boundaries being created.

These are just some thoughts at the moment, and sorry if I’ve rambled. I only hope I’ve added something, even if small, to the conversation.

Posted by md | August 21, 2014, 8:42 pm
On the other side of the border (well previous border), things don’t look any better for so-called army of out-going Maliki, even with the air cover provided by the US. Few days ago, the so-called army tried to gain some morale by attacking Tikrit with what it considers its most elite battalion, the so-called Golden, supported by Shiite militias called for so-called Jihad by the actual ruler of Iraq (well southern Iraq to be exact), the Iranian Sistani. The result was 4 tanks and 9 Humvees destroyed, 30 Goldens and 6 Humvees captured. And voila, the Goldens and their Jihadi comrades were again on the run, as usual.

http://www.al-omah.com/reports-and-investigations-news/sham/item/62431-2014-08-19-20-29-28

And those were not, by the way, ISIS fighters repelling the Goldens. They call themselves the tribes.

Posted by Mustap | August 21, 2014, 8:53 pm
MD,

That was a very good ramble, by the way. So, please continue making such rambles.

I totally agree.

Posted by Mustap | August 21, 2014, 8:57 pm
Tamer K,

While I admit the Syrian Opposition is made up if Islamists, I refuse to follow the narrative that the regime was hoping the world to adopt , which is -accept the leadership of Bashar Assad or have a region overrun by extremist Orcs. This was the intention of the regime all along and the Americans,Israelis and most of the West bought it. “better the devil you know”. They even staged a fake suicide bombing in 2012 at Al-Midan and was since the outset using propaganda to shock the world in fearing these Extremists all the while the Shabiha massacred whole families and engaged in barbaric brutality. ( the seed was sown)

In the political sphere, the SNC and other bodies representing the Syrian opposition lacked coherence and organisation and this was detrimental as it also reflected on the ground in Syria. The FSA were too divided, too weak. There weren’t enough funds or assistance- remember the home made bombs and weaponry – and this under achievement or feeling of hopelessness also fuelled the rise of Islamic groups who had much better cohesion, and more importantly the funds were coming through. Their decisive victories helped in recruiting disenfranchised young men not only from the opposition but gradually from around the globe, culminating in the rise of the Islamic State.

There is a natural process here, an evolution if you like that that contradicts the narrative that the regime were up against Islamic radicals from the get go. We all know for the first 6 months, all we saw on our screens were massive civilian protests, largely unarmed.

Hindsight is a magical thing, but had the Obama administration aimed for a concerted effort with regional powers to back the FSA along with their political representation in assistance including funding, advisory and political, made guarantees to the Alawites and other minorities and at least drew up a map for an inclusive government – not unlike Iraq- the outcomes would have been a lot different.

Posted by Maverick | August 21, 2014, 9:42 pm
… not unlike Iraq…

Maverick,

Your phrase above is exactly the reason Obama isn’t going to lift a finger for anyone in the ME. Obama was dead set against Iraq, so why would he prove himself wrong?

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 21, 2014, 10:49 pm
Maverick,

Here’s your sentiments echoed by Hollande:

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/nowsyrialatestnews/561014-hollande-france-armed-syrian-rebels-a-few-months-ago

Posted by danny | August 22, 2014, 8:18 am
The US state department revealed today 12000 foreign fighters are operating in Syraq. While the department does not mention which groups the foreign fighters are fighting with, one can guess very easily.

Listening to their accents, they are British, Australian, American….the whole works.

I have the impression this is another ‘Bush’ coalition of ‘crusaders’. Neo-cons never gave up on their original plan and now they know they can never be elected again to the White House, so they are outsourcing which is what Americans do best.

Posted by Mustap | August 22, 2014, 8:56 am
Life under Hamas leadership, a Utopia only George Galloway would understand…

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/08/22/hamas-kills-11-suspected-informers-for-israel/

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 22, 2014, 10:08 am
http://news.yahoo.com/hamas-admits-kidnapping-israeli-teens-171720527.html

Posted by Vulcan | August 22, 2014, 10:25 am
I guess Iranians, Saudi, Yemeni and Lebanese are not considered foreign for the wise king’s da3esh rep…

for those who cried out for the brutality of ISIS; how come you easily ignore the massacre at a mosque in Iraq in the hands of Shiite militiamen. The count is 65 and rising. Is killing by poison gas or barrel bombs as well as simple machine-guns considered an honorable means?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/22/us-iraq-security-idUSKBN0GM0L620140822

Posted by danny | August 22, 2014, 10:46 am
Vulcan,

I posted that yesterday. Looks like BB was right after all….

Now that the Syria death toll is near 200,000 and minority communities are fleeing for their lives, I’m wondering what the final game plan will be?

It seems that the “every man for himself” strategy is the best plan. Can the main actors “hold out”? Israel, the US, the West, Jordan, Egypt, KSA, Turkey, Iran, and/or Lebanon? The Islamo death-cults will prey on the weakest link.

Time to watch your borders, watch your visitors and build your defenses. Obama, R U listening?

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 22, 2014, 10:59 am
Chuck Hagel, US Defense Secretary, also revealed today that the level of sophistication, organization and training manifested by these apparently neo-coalition of the willing is something that has never been witnessed before, lending more credence to the thesis that this a well organized effort that can only be undertaken by such parties like the neo-cons, themselves becoming rogue in America after despairing from achieving their aims through legitimate political means. The radicalization of America is underway. Have no doubts about

The wise King has made all the preparations to counter this sinister design of the evil agents (perle, wolfowitz, maccain, bolton,….etc.) who were behind the unravelling of Iraq in the first place under false and fabricated premises. Only the wise King is equipped to deal with this scourge of neo-conic extremism. Unfortunately, the legitimate US administration has been undermined by its own incompetence on one hand, and zealots-gone-rogue on the other.

Posted by Mustap | August 22, 2014, 11:11 am
OK! In the world of men’s shirts, there’s fitted, which is cool, and then there’s tight, which isn’t! And in that “The Secrets of Beirut” segment on CNN which QN linked to a few days ago, host Bahi Ghubril breezes right past “tight” and seems poised to enter “shrink-wrap” territory. Seriously, when the stress patterns are glaringly obvious in the fabric and the buttons seem ready to pop, alarms should be raised and a different shirt should be advised. 🙂

I’m thinking of my significant other who, bless her, has skewered me on repeated occasions for far less than that, and would adamantly refuse to be seen with me in public if I ever tried to don a shirt like that! 🙂

Anyway, end of ‘Fashion Police’ segment … Back to politics and Middle East horribleness I guess …

Posted by Samer Nasser | August 22, 2014, 11:28 am
On the other end of the spectrum, Shiite Jihadists following edicts issued by the Iranian Sistani committed a massacre today in Diyala, after failing to achieve a single objective in attacking rebel strongholds in Tikrit, and instead were put to flight as usual after suffering heavy casualties.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-08-22/dozens-killed-as-iraqi-militia-gunmen-attack-sunni-mosque-1-.html

While the above report cites 66 were massacred in the mosque, which is usually packed on Fridays, the actual number now is over 70.

It is obvious that this is a continuation of the campaign of ethnic cleansing that was begun in 2006 by Maliki and his associates under the guidance of the American occupation forces with the blessings of the neo-conic wing of the Bush administration. This again points out to one and only one conclusion: The wise King of the KSA is the best equipped to deal with this dilemma that is now going way out of proportion.
…..

Posted by Mustap | August 22, 2014, 12:16 pm
More pragmatist coalition speculation by Haaretz’ Zvi Barel:

“World powers see Assad as bulwark against Islamic State
Diplomatic map starting to break Syrian president’s way.”

………..

“The strategic change is reflected in the United States and Europe now being more worried about the expansion of the Islamic State than the continued rule of Assad. Assad is increasingly perceived as a vital component in the struggle against the Islamic State. This conceptual change was discussed in recent talks between Saudi Arabia, Russia, Egypt, the United States and Israel. The Saudi and Russian foreign ministers exchanged visits recently, and Saudi Arabia may now be ready to consider a reform in Syria which will allow Assad to remain in power.

This amounts to a sea change in Saudi strategy, and some analysts suggest that such an agreement will include the installation of its protégé Saad al-Hariri as Lebanon’s president. This would allow Saudi Arabia an elegant exit from the Syrian quagmire.

Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah al-Sissi also discussed Syria in his meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin. Sissi never demanded the removal of Assad who, in turn, has never criticized Egypt’s treatment of Hamas during the fighting in Gaza. Iran was among the first to support Egypt’s proposal for a cease-fire. Sissi may therefore join the Saudis in agreeing to Assad’s remaining in power.

This is bad news for the Syrian opposition, whose American support is also shaky. This new axis is also aimed at neutralizing Qatar in the Syrian arena, where it enjoys great influence over Islamist militias.

This may be what lies behind Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s recent description of a “new political horizon.” He apparently was not referring to the Palestinian issue but to the new informal alliance of Arab states which are concerned about the Islamic State, viewing Assad as a potential ally in a campaign against it. He could be figuring that harsh expressions against Hamas by Arab leaders, Israel’s diplomatic and military cooperation with Egypt, the new strategic outline presented by Saudi Arabia, threats to Jordan and Israeli concerns about militias overrunning Syria may form a basis for regional cooperation.”
http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/.premium-1.611914?v=3432A10D67423EEA7D60C4C99E8E969D

Posted by lally | August 22, 2014, 1:29 pm
Saad Hariri as President of Lebanon ?

The “tolerant” Lebanese that publicly stated he would never accept his children to wed outside the Sunni faith.

Posted by Ray | August 22, 2014, 2:11 pm
It was a BIG mistake by Bashar, Iran and the Lebanese Shi’ite militia to get rid of Rafiq Hariri in Lebanon.

Posted by Ray | August 22, 2014, 2:24 pm
Once again, we need to emphasize that Zvi Bar’el, in his linked Haaretz article in comment above, is only advocating on behalf BB the unfounded assertions made by BB during his recent murderous campaign against Gaza by suggesting the existence of non-existing so-called alliance of inconvenient inconvenience with the Kingdom of SA and Egypt. This senseless talk by BB has been clearly and unequivocally repudiated by the responsible officials of the Kingdom at the very moment they were made, and recently by the architect of the Kingdom’s foreign policy His Higness Prince Saud Al-Fayasal himself declaring Israel an enemy state, and Palestine as the central issue of the Kingdom’s foreign policy. Further, it seems Zvi doesn’t even know that impotent Hariri, who was recently given a billion dollar paper money just to get rid of him out of the Kingdom for misbehaving like an outsider royal, does not even qualify to be a President of Lebanon under the constitution, or even anything that has official capacity to it, and the Saudis will not put such morons in a position of authority. Obviously Zvi is doing nothing but the usual stuffing of the underpants of BB with pieces of cloth to make his manhood look larger than life.

Furthermore, the Saudis will not sit down with the Israelis, for reasons mentioned above, to discuss such regional issues, even in the presence of Russians and Egyptians. What really, happened recently was coordination between KSA, Egypt and Russia in an effort to isolate Assad further on the world scene, and the coordination bore fruit with the Russians agreeing to re-route an SA-300 anti aircraft missile system, that was originally destined to be shipped to Assad, and instead it will end up installed in Egypt with the KSA bearing the cost. The Russians were extremely happy with the new arrangement and are looking forward for similar deals. This is important, because if any perceived airstrikes are to be undertaken by any coalition, possibly Arab air Force coalition of the willing, against Assad targets in Syria, especially now that the Chemicals are gone, would rather not be faced with such anti aircraft missiles. In effect, the Saudi-Russian deal gave Putin the face saving exit from siding with such a murderer like Assad after Assad’s crimes against humanity have become public. Putin realizes more than ever that Assad has become a liability which he cannot bear any longer and is looking for new allies niw that the West is after his throat. It was a masterful coup de grace on the part of the Saudi diplomacy.

To make a long story short, Assad, HA, and Suleimani must be gotten rid of as a prerequisite for any effort to stamp out terrorism once and for all.. This is exactly what the Kingdom and Egypt are working to accomplish, because the leadership in both countries, being in possession of such a high degree of wisdom, are very aware of the underlying issues which breed and nurture terrorism in many parts of the world, and they know very well that HA, Assad and Suleimani’ and their stooges are the main culprits. Israel has nothing to do with it and it cannot be party of this noble effort because Israel itself is a terrorist state.

Posted by Mustap | August 22, 2014, 2:49 pm
Danny…

Sunnis and Shias are killing each other in their mosques for whatever political agendas they each have. (With respective support from Saudi Arabia and Iran).

But why decimate the Yazidis in the process?

Don’t compare Isis to the story you posted. There is no relation.

Posted by Gabriel | August 22, 2014, 3:09 pm
gabby,

Not comparing. just making a point about outrage! The outrage should be universal to everyone. The Yazidis are the newest group to be attacked by ISIS. Let’s not forget the thousands of Christian minorities in Syria and Iraq…They do number in hundreds of thousands…I was not referring to any particular sect per se. ISIS have been savage and brutal so have been other extremists from all sects.

Nobody wants any sect or minority decimated. The outrage against them while not considering other minorities massacres is very selective and phoney.

Posted by danny | August 22, 2014, 4:18 pm
The past few comments, it’s like I suddenly got transported to an alternate reality or bizarro world. What are you people smoking?
Saad Hariri president of Lebanon?
Putin turning his back on Assad by re-routing an anti-aircraft battery to Egypt?
Are you people making this stuff up?

Posted by Bad Vilbel | August 22, 2014, 5:21 pm
BV,

Just take it with a grain of salt and remember who are the ones posting those gems.

Posted by danny | August 22, 2014, 5:53 pm
I’m not making my news up, BV, about Putin re-routing missiles to Egypt. That’s for real.

Zvi Bar’el is making his news up about Hariri becoming President and Israel having so-called alliance of inconvenience, to which I responded as you can see.

Posted by Mustap | August 22, 2014, 5:55 pm
lol we are stricken by wisdom

Posted by Vulcan | August 22, 2014, 5:55 pm
In the “President of Leb case” that’s just how irelevant posts are refered too by the Israelis

Posted by Vulcan | August 22, 2014, 5:57 pm
The wise King, thank god, he’s gonna save us all from each other

Posted by Vulcan | August 22, 2014, 5:59 pm
Samer, lay off the Shawarma, your wife is right!

Posted by Vulcan | August 22, 2014, 6:01 pm
That’s excellent. More people now believe in the King’s wisdom. That’s way better than packing up and heading over to Iraq jarheaded.

شو راح يشيلوا الزير من البير؟

😀

Posted by Mustap | August 22, 2014, 6:14 pm
BV,

Here’s the link about the missiles,

http://en.itar-tass.com/russia/746166

Posted by Mustap | August 22, 2014, 6:19 pm
Danny, who is not condemning both sides enough? Any sane human rejects what is being committed by both sides. But in all fairness, the actions of the lice infested “Wise” IS, way surpass in barbarity against minorities, than that of any Shia militias. when did you ever hear the Shia militias in Iraq and Syria attacking and cleansing Christian and other minorities? The Shia are victims of these marauding mohamadans. the correct alliance against this evil ideology should be a Jewish, Shia, Christian and Secular Koffar alliance. I’m calling it the coalition of the “Wild”

Posted by Vulcan | August 22, 2014, 6:42 pm
Seems like the white man worshipper Vulcan is also a sectarian bigot (while being “atheist” of course, so that he doesn’t loose his intellectual prestige).

Posted by 3issa | August 22, 2014, 7:18 pm
So 3issa, you finally getting infected with Kingly Wisdom?

It’s about time.😄

Posted by Mustap | August 22, 2014, 8:08 pm
Danny,

I don’t think that what is being meted out to the Yazidis is comparable to even what other minorities are going through.

Hell, QN’s new resident Da’ish, and subject matter expert on the “Goat tribe” of Arabia didn’t even know those “so-called devil worshippers” even existed.

So much for the Arab penchant for embracing the rich cultural heritage of the area.

As for the Arab Sunnis in Iraq, and this remark goes to both you and Maverick. This pesky minority who spent the first years following the downfall of Saddam bombing churches and Shiite mosques, and who are now silently watching as the IS is spreading communal love in the lands of Nebuchadnezzar… Will apparently only reign in the militants if they are passed along some lollipops and given more political clout. Indeed. What a bargain.

Posted by Gabriel | August 22, 2014, 9:00 pm
I have been a participant on political forums for years and must admit that Qifa Nabki is the most fun of them all.

I liked the business about Hariri being made president of Lebanon, too. But you never know.

Zvi Barel is old school and not interested in enhancing bibi’s manhood. In general, Israelis aren’t fanboys of their politicians/leadership. He’s obviously repeating what he hears from his sources and being that they are Israeli, there could be some wishful thinking involved with speculation that Hariri would be placed in the palace. They would love that.

What’s most interesting to me is the claim that Israel is involved; no question that their intel and other military assets are by far superior to those of any other party who could become involved in a campaign to mow the Daash grasses.

Bibi’s coy hints of a “new political horizon” have fueled much speculation as to what in hell he means.

Posted by lally | August 22, 2014, 9:01 pm
Gabriel,

What are the Yazidis going through that’s not comparable? Were Christians given a bus ticket out of Mosul or Raqqa? Kasab? Aleppo?…Come on now. The Kurds withdrew their support of the Yazidis to get more armaments from the west, Yes they did play that card. So let’s blame the freaking peshmerga( who are the new darlings of the west’s media) for being an accomplice for the murders of the Yazidis. Let’s get real here; 16 Humvee blown up and the supposedly thinly spread peshmerga takes over the dam in 10 minutes! There’s a lot of games being played here. Only the meek suffer..Whether they are in their churches or mosques or just existing.

Posted by danny | August 22, 2014, 9:13 pm
…and as far as the ja7sh of da3esh; the only thing it worries about is the incoherent mutterings of a khrfen wise king.

Posted by danny | August 22, 2014, 9:16 pm
In general, Israelis aren’t fanboys of their politicians/leadership.

Libby,

“Fanboy”? How about votes and a free election? I know that may be foreign to you considering your support for totalitarian thugs.

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 22, 2014, 9:21 pm
“when did you ever hear the Shia militias in Iraq and Syria attacking and cleansing Christian and other minorities”

So when HA cleanses larges swaths of villages and towns in Syria to populate them with Shia to create a bridge to Latakia; it is ok for you? because it is done against Sunnis…?

Posted by danny | August 22, 2014, 9:21 pm
Danny,

Man I don’t know. But apparently the Peshmerga, the Iraqi army and the so-called “Goldens” ain’t got nothing against even simpleton valiant tribesmen!

None of those words are mine of course. I don’t have such words of wisdom.

Listen, I’m not disagreeing that there are games going on. Of course there is. But it is not ultimately the Kurds killing Yazidis.

Posted by Gabriel | August 22, 2014, 9:23 pm
Look how ignorant these so-called enlightened atheists of the Mashreq, A.K.A. Jackass Phoenixes. In other words, as we explained in earlier comments, a phoenix is a certain breed which was supposedly given the power of rebirth, according to myth, in order that it may evolve into something else. It so happened after countess such rebirths, it insists on returning to this life as nothing but a jackass, caught in a never ending time warp in the process. And no we’re not talking star trek here. It’s played right here in front of us with all the pomp and pretenses that cone with it.

We have such reincarnation here of the jackass who understands that قبيلة عنزة is properly translated as “Goat Tribe”. Wahahahahahahaha…what a phoenix? Where have you been in your previous lives? You haven’t met a عنزة native who explained to you how the name is pronounced?

Let’s explain and hopefuly on the next reincarnation you will turn out something else other than what are now (don’t hold your breaths experience doesn’t support it). 😄

فبيلة عنزة is pronounced Uneza in English, and not Anza ya fahman ibn jahlan. It is the largest Arab tribe in the Arab world and its history can be traced to prehistory, you must have seen some of them ,c’mon.

http://ar.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/عنزة_(قبيلة)

So which tribe you come from ya phoenix?

Posted by Mustap | August 22, 2014, 9:24 pm
… Also I don’t mean to diminish the sufferings of others.

When I say its not comparable, I mean it is not comparable in relative impact.

At the risk of sounding crass and potentially demeaning. It is like the list of endangered species.

What happens to the Yazidis risks putting a community that is quite uniques at risk of extinction, together with their particular customs and habits.

Now this might not be something that troubles the “wiseman” who didn’t know they existed at all. But I think it should be something that troubles the rest of us.

Posted by Gabriel | August 22, 2014, 9:32 pm
Lol. Shoo shater

Did you get a little worked up with my double entendres.

I come from a tribe called the “Torontonians”.

Posted by Gabriel | August 22, 2014, 9:38 pm
Gabby

I am with you. I am in no way saying that Yazidis should be exterminated. However just because they are a small sect that has survived for eons through atrocities and massacres (that the da3ish douche did not know about)…They should not be looked upon as an endangered species. Rather; the wise king and his filthy ISIS followers should be bombed to kingdom come. Then I’d like to hear some wise words from a dead man.

Posted by danny | August 22, 2014, 9:41 pm
Wahahahaha….again, the geagea phoenix is showing his true color out of spite and seething with anger and wants to bomb out the Wise King! Real Jackass.

Methinks this is a potic post on poetic history on a qifa nabki poetic classic, and it needs a poetry contest, not a bombing contest. So here we go with the poems of the tribes,

Special attention is called for at 42:45.

Again if you can’t make out the words being Torontonean or Montrealer with no tribal connections (in ither words rootless) here is the the impotant part that you need to understand,

جعل من يكرهك يغلى بلاد يموت من بلواه
عسى سباع الخلا تفني جسده وترمي ثيابه

Posted by Mustap | August 22, 2014, 9:53 pm
Holly chihuahua…

Posted by danny | August 22, 2014, 10:09 pm
Hi Mustap, Thank you, and I will. Really enjoy reading the exchanges surrounding all the topics. So much food for thought being brought out in them.

Posted by md | August 23, 2014, 8:21 am
Would that be a step in the right direction for Iraq?

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/News/Middle-East/2014/Aug-23/268245-biden-us-would-help-iraq-pursue-federal-system.ashx#axzz3BDz2Fr00

Posted by Ray | August 23, 2014, 10:14 am
Yes Ray,

Obama made damn sure he succeeded in scuttling GWB’s successes in Iraq. Now the jerk is talking about rebuilding what he destroyed. The man should be in jail for treason.

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 23, 2014, 10:45 am
Hi MD and thanks to you too.

Posted by Mustap | August 23, 2014, 12:03 pm
Iraq is easy. Syria, with Bashar in power, is by far more complex. Lebanon with Aoun, Geagea, Jumblatt, Berri, Nasrallah, Hariri, Gemayel, and the other usual suspects … is absolutely impossible 🙂

Posted by Ray | August 23, 2014, 2:12 pm
Question:

Why did the wise King feel so threatened by the Islamic Republic of Iran that he revealed their head should be bitten off?

Does the wise King fear that the Iranians deem him unworthy of protecting the Holiest of Islamic shrines?

Posted by Ray | August 23, 2014, 3:02 pm
Danny..

I went MIA for quite some time. When exactly did this Daesh ressurgence make its way to QN. And could it possibly be none other than the Iceman?

I mean I find it hard to believe that there is another with such unflailing commitment to the house of Saud.

Posted by Gabriel | August 23, 2014, 3:19 pm
Issa

You should be a little careful throwing around such snide remarks against the atheists. It’s the sort of language Daesh used in its recent threat against Morocco.

Posted by Gabriel | August 23, 2014, 3:28 pm
Gabby

After a stint in Qusair and Qalamoun and a diet of human organs for lunch; iceman has returned with the refined manners of Daesh. It would but any salafist to shame. It even was serenading the unsuspecting zionists for a while.

It now has a fetish for mountain goats and everything phoenix. If I were you I’d leave this douche troll be as he has been unsuccessfully trying to find another recruit.

Posted by danny | August 23, 2014, 3:50 pm
At least Obama attempts a rescue mission in Syraq and admits failure. The guy is honest even without the ‘glamours’ of ‘holy’ resistance. But HA does nothing for Gazza except talk (Hajj Hassan today and Nasr-whatever few days ago). It does nothing to abducted Lebanese soldiers except scheming to draw the Lebanese army to fight on its behalf. I thought Lally would link this article out of concern to the soldiers instead of the idiotic delusions of Zvi Bar’el,

http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/144452-abducted-troops-appear-in-video-as-salam-says-media-discretion-advised-on-sensitive-issue

Deeply disappointed with resistance recent performance.

Do we understand resistance folks don’t give a damn about resistance any more?

………….

Amused by rootless in Toronto consoling rootless in Montreal. Love it.

Posted by Mustap | August 23, 2014, 4:03 pm
Goodness, Gracious, who will clean Dubai’s public toilets 20 years from now and at what cost?

Posted by Ray | August 23, 2014, 4:25 pm
Gabriel ,

Not sure to understand what you mean. I don’t care if someone is atheist (even Jewish atheist lol). it’s just none of my business. What I find outrageous is to suddenly lambast the Sunnis of Iraq and associate them with IS. It’s the typical sectarian hogwash used by Maliki and its patrons in mashad to justify the repression of the Sunnis in Iraq (which is not a minority btw). Anyway, I’m still not able to clearly understand what IS really is and how it managed to take over so quicky. I hate conspiracy theories , but the “made by Assad” seems the most plausible to me at the moment. That’s all that the Syrian regime needs to gain international support : so called jihadis shopping heads and sending “bloody messages to amreeka”.

And am I the resident Moroccan here ? 🙂

Mustap,

I’m not yet totally convinced by the wise nature of the al saloul squatters. And honestly don’t you think that these panegeryc you showed us are the most lame and boring ever ever ever…

But yeah I think regarding the zio parasites we now agree on the same diagnosis.

Salam and shalom

Posted by 3issa | August 23, 2014, 8:04 pm
Issa,

The Arab Sunnis make up no more than 25%-30% of the population.

Our friend, the ubiquitous Iceman suggested some years back that the US of A was able to contain “Sunni” violence by coopting the community.

I take it then that the community is not motivated to so much.

And the comment stands even if it was the Syrian government behind the creation of the group. Or the CIA or Mossad.

Posted by Gabriel | August 23, 2014, 9:51 pm
To the point of the original post, borders have always been fluid and only reflect the epistemological controlling mechanisms of nation-building through territorial and population control. Nation building is associated with “modern” identities built on the German, French and English 19th Century model–Renan represents this best with his linking nations to language, beliefs, and “cultural” traits. Poetry and fiction have always undermined a fixed identity, even when used ideologically to prop up some kind of imagined belonging. The reason one could talk of fluid identities that are nonetheless material realities is that the “unity” or “similarity” model of belonging is constructed (through trans-individual imagination) for the strategic purpose of finding commonality. The “difference” model of belonging is represented in two ways: the postmodern desire for an identity that accepts difference as integral to its “commons” (itself linked to pre-modern identities, whether under the early Abbbasids or the Andalusian models–globalized spaces before the letter). That postmodern desire is a material reality precisely because of the contemporary globalization trends in breaking and remaking identities in border-less contexts. The productive forces in contemporary identity building mechanisms allow for belonging to “ways of life” that may be driven by ideological forces of a “consumer society” or a global capitalist culture entrenched in a de-spatialized time, or by a reactive “tribal” or “ethnic” (as a form of resistance) identity built on an imagined spatialized “place”. This explains right wing neo-nationalist tribal/ethnic/racial identities in Europe, for example, and religious “fundamentalist” identities in West and Southeast Asia, for example.

Poetic identities described by QN have traces of the pre-modern identity building processes of the pre-nationalist Ottoman spaces (pre-Turkish and pre-Arab nationalism, which are epsitemological constructs following a European model). We should explore alternative means of identity building and belongingness that accepts “difference”–rather than fetishize sameness–if we are to get out of this rut. My two cents.

Posted by Parrhesia | August 23, 2014, 10:06 pm
Moroccan and didn’t know it?

So, what does such a rooted 3issa have to do with the rootless? After all Amir Al-Muminun is himself very wise and always consults with his wise counterpart in the holy land,

http://themuslim500.com/profile/king-mohammed-vi-morocco

The Wise King himself has his white palace in Morocco.

What happened to you and what made you go rootless? Not to mention a resistance fanatic?

Shame.

A man without history is a tree without roots.

Posted by Mustap | August 23, 2014, 11:41 pm
“……,,We should explore alternative means of identity building and belongingness that accepts “difference”–rather than fetishize sameness–if we are to get out of this rut. My two cents”

You’re preaching to the wrong audience.

May be you should first try preaching to your own people in Qom, and then let us know how you fare.

Posted by Mustap | August 24, 2014, 12:52 am
Mustap,

Every human being has a history and all trees have roots.

Posted by Ray | August 24, 2014, 12:16 pm
I’m on vacation folks. Keep it civil in here, as the last thing I want to be doing is moderating a comment section.

Back next week with some quality interviews…

Posted by Qifa Nabki | August 24, 2014, 12:17 pm
”
Mustap,

Every human being has a history and all trees have roots.”

How so thoughtful and very touching?

A tree without roots is a tree that has been uprooted. Eventually, it dies and made fuel for fire.

““A people without the knowledge of their past history, origin and culture is like a tree without roots.”

a quote by
― Marcus Garvey

Posted by Mustap | August 24, 2014, 12:27 pm
Well, as far as some Experts say, her name was Lucy and she lived and died somewhere in Africa?

Personally, I know deep inside me that I actually came from outer space. Like Kal El.

Posted by Ray | August 24, 2014, 12:41 pm
Gabriel, give it up, the IS fighters are all Catholics from Bogota. They are well paid by Assad, Iran, the Zionists and the CIA, to just pretend to be Sunni Muslims from Raqa and Anbar. It’s a huge conspiracy to tarnish the religion of Peace.

Posted by Vulcan | August 24, 2014, 2:03 pm
They also pretend to be from Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Egypt, Kuwait, KSA, but in reality they are all just your regular Ricky Ricardo

Posted by Vulcan | August 24, 2014, 2:11 pm
Elias

We’re all being quite civil here.

The conversation has morphed into one on dendrology.

Carry on with your vacation.

Posted by Gabriel | August 24, 2014, 2:17 pm
Vulcan,

Are they receiving lodging and training in Qum before making their way to Sinjar?

Posted by Gabriel | August 24, 2014, 2:25 pm
Ray are you the phoenix of R2D2?

Posted by Gabriel | August 24, 2014, 2:30 pm
Exactly! In Qum, where they get a crash course on how to bomb Heretical Shia Mosques, burn Infidel Churches and rape and auction Yazidi women.

Posted by Vulcan | August 24, 2014, 2:49 pm
ray…R2D2…Peter in Dubai…

Posted by danny | August 24, 2014, 6:43 pm
Vulcan,

Don’t think what you said is preposterous. 😀

Last year a couple of people were arrested in Toronto who were conspiring to bomb the rail service. They were identified as a Qaeda cell that was financed….Drum-roll… IRAN!!!

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/22/two-men-arrested-over-al-qaeda-inspired-plan-to-attack-a-via-rail-train-in-the-greater-toronto-area/

Posted by danny | August 24, 2014, 7:03 pm
Danny,

I’m convinced that Mustap is our long lost iceman

Posted by Gabriel | August 24, 2014, 10:42 pm
How about iceman turning into dustman?

Rootless idiots still phoenixed in the ice age!

I told you guys you’re just hopeless.

😃

Posted by Mustap | August 25, 2014, 1:24 am
Yup. Profoundly articulate. It’s the frozen man alright!

Posted by danny | August 25, 2014, 8:42 am
Looks like the enlightened lebano Canadians on this blog are now enamored with wilayat el faqih. So cute.

By the way, it’s also the common theme among the Arab nationalists to praise to murderous Iranian regime.

Posted by 3issa | August 25, 2014, 9:54 am
You need to know Marocain that these are the Lebano that Lebano wants-not. Lebano has a lot of intelligent people. But these are not the ones. Every country has bad apples.

Who wants to be associated with bad apples who are born sectarians and who die sectarians? They also claim they somehow come back to life, and if true, which frankly speaking I doubt, they also come back sectarians. It’s like a complete static circle. It’s in the genes. Hopelessness manifest! Good for nothing but at making the pretenses of being so-called intellectuals, inventing names like icepacks, stardust, ice buckets, dust buckets and all kinds of nonsense and gimmicks merely to attract attention and create diversions. But dig down deep and that’s all you get – disappointing bummer. I haven’t read one single intelligent argument from anyone of them.

have you seen them in Montreal or Toronto? They look like cave mountaineers, and would give their lives and do anything just to be called city people (not duya’i min al-jabal) out of some complex psychological feeling and also for the mere love of pretending. Some of them can’t even read. We have experience with them when they show up in Beirut. They are such a humorous spectacle not to be missed.

Just watch how they team together like swarms when they get beaten.

So, long live Amir al-Mumineen, the Wise. Agree? Say yes and forget about this democracy charade and resisto-fanticism. They’re sterile and useless endeavours.

Posted by Mustap | August 25, 2014, 11:08 am
3issa,

Who on earth is enlightened with the rat squad? We all knew you were at one point…However; you are getting baited by the man eating douche-bag (Daiesh) here. Be careful what you wish for as he is always hungry!

Posted by danny | August 25, 2014, 11:33 am
I, enjoy watching the loyal Marocans on their knees, kissing the hand of the fatso retard Prince of Believers, after all, it’s their own backward tradition. what’s strange, is the Lebanese proud city boy here, the Saudi wannabe, groveling and dying to kiss the ass of yet another illiterate fat hog. Tsk tsk tsk, the things some of us have to do for money. Truly pathetic.

FYI, as far as I am concerned, F@&$ you, and the welayat el faqih and any other Islamic authority on this earth. I never liked anyone with a GoKart tire on their head.

Posted by Vulcan | August 25, 2014, 12:44 pm
Nuts.

Posted by 3issa | August 25, 2014, 1:15 pm
You see my point now Marocain?

They can’t compose a single sentence without interspersing it with venom and hatred and a whole lot of mumbo jumbo of incomprehensible symbols. That’s as far as their ‘argument’ goes (sorry if I said argument. There’s NONE). You don’t benefit the least.

And I thought this guy went to Baghdad منشان يشيل الزير من البير !

But be careful when going home, Marocain, Draculas may be on the look out for you. You owe this caveman of the mountains tons of thank you for the warning. Don’t forget to show manners and to express gratitude.

Posted by Mustap | August 25, 2014, 1:18 pm
Mustap,

I can’t follow if what is going in the ME is a Sunni/Sunni struggle for domination or a Shia/Sunni one?

If there are such deep differences between the Saudis and the Iranians, why don’t they go to war against each other directly instead of beating around the rest of Middle Eat bush?

Posted by Ray | August 25, 2014, 2:28 pm
East – Eat

Posted by Ray | August 25, 2014, 2:29 pm
What makes you believe one or the other or both are beating around of the rest of the Middle East bush?

you can’t say that without a proof. Do you have any?

It’s more likely that what is happening is the result of the misguided Bush ‘crusade’ which was discussed here and elsewhere ad nauseum.

Posted by Mustap | August 25, 2014, 2:59 pm
Guys…

Go back to discussing trees. Otherwise Elias may shut down the convo.

Issa,

For the love of Muhammad, keep at least a little distance from this awkward fellow here.

Posted by Gabriel | August 25, 2014, 3:25 pm
Mirror, mirror on the wall, who is the wisest King of them all?

Posted by Ray | August 25, 2014, 3:44 pm
I’m not shutting you down, Ray. I usually, ignore this guy who seems not to know what he’s talking about most of the time.

Actually, I’ll be eager to listen to your proofs. So, please produce something like the following:

1) Saudi is fighting Iran by beating around the bush of the ME by doing this, this and this etc….

2) Iran is fighting Saudi by beating around the bush of the ME by doing this, this and this etc….

3) Both Saudis and Iranians are beating around the bush of the ME by doing this, this and this etc…

So, what do you have in terms of proofs?

But, you may also want to read this before you make up your mind,

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2014/08/24/quasi-governmental-psyops-deployed-to-steal-our-future/

Posted by Mustap | August 25, 2014, 3:53 pm
Mustap..

Venom? Hatred? Are you smoking A-grade hashish from the bekaa?

Dude you refered to the Yazidis as devil worshipers. If I were you, I’d bite my tongue and keep quite.

Or better yet, beg for the forum’s forgiveness.

Posted by Gabriel | August 26, 2014, 12:19 am
I’m not sure if I should even bother to respond to someone who if he reads understands very little, if he writes is so illegible, or who doesn’t know if he’s talking to an iceman an R2D2 or someone else.

Posted by Mustap | August 26, 2014, 8:13 am
For those who are having some kind of heat stroke…Leave the vermin alone.

Posted by danny | August 26, 2014, 10:28 am
Danny,

Come on. Let’s have a little fun here.

The elite Beiruti and his friends apparently make fun of us lowly hunched cavemen mountainfolk. We need to get to know what they say about us.

And where/when else would such a golden opportunity to learn ever present itself again.

Posted by Gabriel | August 26, 2014, 12:22 pm
Mustap,

I’ll speak for myself, Danny, Lally, AIG, AP and a few others. For the past few years, we have presented ourselves with the same moniker.

What/who you were in previous iterations/QN lifetimes is not very relevant. Suffice it to say that you, and a previous fellow by the name of Iceman write the same way, argue the same way, and for the most part share indistinguishable viewpoints.

As far as Platonic archetypes are concerened, you are one and the same person. And certainly in this virtual world of social media, where genes don’t matter much, you may as well be the one and only Iceman..

Given the large swathes of misguided folk- European reverts, disillusioned Arabs, Tatars, Asian clamouring to be part of Jihad Inc, and who like you, believe that democracy is a sham.. Your views on the topic are most welcome. I can hardly think of another subject matter expert on this forum who could discuss this topic at great length.

So spend less time discussing poetry, and opining on matters relating to botany (hardly your fortes), and instead focus on your strong points. We will all benefit from the discussion.

Posted by Gabriel | August 26, 2014, 12:47 pm
Do I really care when you presume to speak about others? No. (I hope you find this a good discussion. You see? I even answered an irrelevant question). 🙂

Do I have previous iterations? No. (You see I’m still engaged and answering an even more irrelevant question).

Do so-called genes of virtual world and social media have any relevance? No. They cannot even be observed, measured or ascertained. (You see? I’m hard at work keeping up with more irrelevance).

Are you in a position to determine who is and who is not misguided? No. ( I can hardly keep count now. But as you can see I’m still hard at work trying to keep up).

Are you the one to set the tone of the conversation? No. So what relevance do you have to offer?

Do I care when you become slimy with your ‘swarming’ Montreal friend? No. It’s totally irrelevant. But I still answered.

You see? I did try not ignore you and as it’s obvious the answers cannot be more straightforward.

But, I’m concerned you can’t speak Marocain or Vulcan?

I agree we should keep it funny. I don’t want to lose Lally.

Posted by Mustap | August 26, 2014, 2:01 pm
I would like to think that an exodus of European reverts and frenetic Arabs to hone their head chopping skills would be classified by most people as misguided.

Do you take exception to this view? If so, state so explicitly. Don’t be shy or embarrassed about it.

Posted by Gabriel | August 26, 2014, 4:31 pm
We’re gaining huge benefits by reiterating the obvious.

Congratulations, you’ve moved from irrelevance to parroting.

You have a bright future as long as you keep away from cavemen of the mountains.
👹

Posted by Mustap | August 26, 2014, 6:48 pm
What’s obvious to me is that you’re a hardcore ISIS supporter.

Just acknowledge the point and we can move on to more interesting discussions.

Posted by Gabriel | August 26, 2014, 7:59 pm
Parrots don’t see the obvious just by being able to reiterate.

But obviously parrots are misguided. They cannot be guided.

So move on with your trip to ISIStan.

Or just go back to irrelevance.

Posted by Mustap | August 26, 2014, 10:29 pm
I don’t know about you guys, but I think we should celebrate the Hamas victory over the Zionists.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/israel-hamas-reach-cease-fire-deal-brokered-by-egypt/2014/08/26/cc834c02-2d49-11e4-bb9b-997ae96fad33_story.html?hpid=z1

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 26, 2014, 11:24 pm
Mustap,

What’s with you and parrots. They are perhaps the best guided creatures. If they’re good at anything, it’s at repeating things!

Are you troubled by my parotting of your statements and assertions?

So Yazidis are devil worshipers

And democracy is a sham

And Saudi Arabia, bankrollers of worldwide extremism are ruled by a wise king

And Lebanon’s mountainfolk pale in comparison to Beiruti intellectuals such as yourself.

Any other nuggets of wisdom you’d like to contribute?

Posted by Gabriel | August 27, 2014, 12:26 am
Mustap said,

”
I’m not sure if I should even bother to respond to someone who if he reads understands very little, if he writes is so illegible, or who doesn’t know if he’s talking to an iceman an R2D2 or someone else.

POSTED BY MUSTAP | AUGUST 26, 2014, 8:13 AM
“

Posted by Mustap | August 27, 2014, 12:44 am
City slicker, eh?

Let’s convert ‘im!

Devil worshipers are they? As in sorcerers?

Posted by lally | August 27, 2014, 12:56 am
What are you saying?

That you didn’t say that democracy is a sham?

That you didn’t say Yazidis are devil worshipers?

That you don’t think that the ruler of KSA is wise?

That you and your friends don’t make fun of mountainfolk emigres to the Dominion?

That you think the stream of Jihadists going to Iraq and Syria are in fact misguided?

If I misunderstood your words, and I’ve taken little creative license in quoting you, then please elaborate. You’ve been quoted verbatim.

Posted by Gabriel | August 27, 2014, 12:58 am
Lally,

Given that I myself am a big fan of the fallen angel, I’m not quite sure what to make of it. I think the bible/koran need the Gregory Maguire treatment, where it turns out that Beelzebub was the good guy/gal after all, and God and his prophets the real troublemakers.

🙂

Posted by Gabriel | August 27, 2014, 1:04 am
He’s still butthurt from the last time you made him quit the forum, that’s why he’s evading 🙂

Posted by Vulcan | August 27, 2014, 1:35 am
Of course the king of KSA is Wise. You think your aporoval or anyone of your friends’here are needed? You must be way out of your mind to even assume you matter in this case.

Of course Democracy is a sham. Just look at Iraq. Who would want anything like that especially in a very SUCCESSFUL Moroco?

Mounainfolk like your geagea friend are fair subject of fun. Do you doubt that? You may doubt it. But I don’t

But you need to explain that thing about the Yazidis yourself? I never said that. You seem to be a very very misguided parrot who can’t even reiterate properly.

And was it not you who said the Jihadists were misguided? You have a problem with what you said?

GTFO and stop waste my time with more of your idiotic and convoluted parroting.

Posted by Mustap | August 27, 2014, 1:57 am
Vulcan,

You must be the only one but hurt here.

Posted by Mustap | August 27, 2014, 1:59 am
Mustap,

The irony of course is that some of the “so called pedophile followers”, flew from areas like East London and Manchester to places like Iraq and are busy killing “so-called devil worshipers”.

Those Jihadists are in my very humble opinion quite misguided. You’re the one who took exception to the statement. Why? Do you personally think they are rightly guided?

If not (and if you agree with me that they are misguided), why don’t you just say so.

Posted by Gabriel | August 27, 2014, 6:34 am
I don’t need to say anything to you BONEHEAD, because you don’t read.
Get lost.

Posted by Mustap | August 27, 2014, 6:46 am
Mustap,

Right now, we only have each other! Why are you being so hurtful and mean?

We’ve come full circle to the discussion topic. You think democracy is a sham because of the situation in Iraq?

So you think the failure in Iraq is related to a failure in democracy?

Or is it due to the machinations of the US of A and its Zionist puppetmasters?

What’s your proposed solution for failed democracy in Iraq? Split the country?

Posted by Gabriel | August 27, 2014, 8:23 am
Gabriel,

There is no other alternative for Iraq than splitting the country into Kurdish, Shia and Sunni Federations.

The Kurds have welcomed the proposal. I think so will the Shias/Iran. I doubt the “Wise” King will.

Maybe Mustap(ha) can share his point of view on the matter?

Posted by Ray | August 27, 2014, 10:06 am
Ray,

There is the option of splitting Iraq.

There is the federation option.

There is the option of keeping it intact but force a Sunni overlord a la Bahrain, Saudi Arabia to make sure the wise king is happy.

There is the option of the borderless Islamic state that chews up Syria as well, with also a Sunni overlord to make sure the Sunnis remain happy.

I’m not sure Mustap(ha) cares to be transparent on what his personal views on the subject. It is far more convenient for him to send everyone on a wild goose chase trying to find rock solid proof that Iran and Saudi Arabia are in fact engaging in a proxy war against each other.

Posted by Gabriel | August 27, 2014, 10:45 am
I believe some persons on this blog mentioned that there is no future for Political Islam.

I think what we are witnessing is actually the real dawn of it.

Posted by Ray | August 27, 2014, 10:53 am
Gabriel,

Don’t take it too personal 🙂

Posted by Ray | August 27, 2014, 11:00 am
personal 🙂

I’m a rootless unsophisticated mountain goatherd lost in the Canadian wilderness

Posted by Gabriel | August 27, 2014, 1:27 pm
Even worse, I bet your Canadian goats bleat with funny, Canuck accents! And you dare to display your anonymous moniker on the Internet unembarrassed and unashamed? 🙂

Posted by Samer Nasser | August 27, 2014, 2:02 pm
Abu Steif is no Abul Abed, he is known to be cowardly and he just cannot wrap his bigoted head around the fact that Beirut and Baghdad are lost forever to the heretic Rafidha 🙂 he is sweaty and panicky, waking up in terror to the chants of Haydar Haydar 🙂

Posted by Vulcan | August 27, 2014, 2:25 pm
Anyways, fuck the ME, here’s a Canadian conspiracy to outdo us Amreekans

“Canadians have a bizarrely passive-aggressive but thoroughly performative sense of humo(u)r.”

http://gawker.com/is-canada-mocking-us-with-this-fucking-doughnut-1627440621

Posted by Vulcan | August 27, 2014, 2:33 pm
Gabe,

At best you are a Lebanese Mountain Goat lost in the Canadian wilderness that has met with more Indian Goats from Bombay in Canada than you have encountered Moose 🙂

Posted by Ray | August 27, 2014, 3:38 pm
http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608002253657276465&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0

Posted by danny | August 27, 2014, 4:48 pm
Danny,

Where did you get that selfie I took?

Posted by Gabriel | August 27, 2014, 5:44 pm
Is that in Mont Royal?..or qalamoun?

Posted by danny | August 27, 2014, 7:41 pm
Lol.

Blue mountain 😉

Posted by Gabriel | August 27, 2014, 10:38 pm
Here’s something the BDS crowd will ignore because the perps aren’t jooish…

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28965959

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 28, 2014, 7:10 am
Today’s Sykes-Picot™ Question of the Day: Why can’t arabs protect themselves? Israel returns the beautiful and peaceful Sinai to Egypt, and then the Sinai becomes another training ground for muslim extremists.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4565208,00.html

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 28, 2014, 7:33 am
Gabriel the exterminator…

http://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-photography-exterminator-cartoon-image-forcing-flea-to-leave-eps-image35239507

Posted by danny | August 28, 2014, 10:06 pm
Gaby is relentlessly thorough once engaged at his task. ; (}

Here’s some fuel for the fire(s):

“Americans are stupid. They and their obedient British allies bear the responsibility for what they call Creative Chaos besetting the Middle East. They underestimate the implications of this fire raging in Europe, which is geographically in the heart of imminent danger.”

“We may say that Washington is plotting to Europe, albeit unintentionally!” the intelligence officers, among them a German, said as they were reviewing the hot world events in good Arabic accent.”

……..

“Whatever the exact number is, what concerns intelligence services is the success of ‘Islamic state’ in attracting more western young people, depending on high media professionalism via broadcasting speeches in several languages (Arabic, English, French, Russian and Persian).

This question occupies the top priorities of the European intelligence services, which are engaged in the search for the agents who facilitate the transition of young people affected by the ISIL ideology to fight in Syria and Iraq. They are looking for the financier, recruiter and mediator.”

[Here it comes…….]

“The scene does not get complete without mentioning Hezbollah. A European intelligence officer agree on the “pre-emptive war” waged by the party, pointing out that «if it (Hezbollah) did not enter Syria, Lebanon would be trapped.”

“More than that, if Hezbollah did not get involved in the battle, it should get involved now.”

But wait, isn’t Hezbollah the same party that is inscribed on European black list? The shocking answer comes from the speaking officer: “Hezbollah is fighting a battle against terrorism on behalf of the world, so it must be supported, at least in this confrontation”.

“I can say today that the party (Hezbollah) fighters are defending Europe,” he added.

Answering a question on whether this means that there is cooperation between these services and Hezbollah?

“We are ready to cooperate if necessary,” the officer replied smiling.”

http://www.almanar.com.lb/english/adetails.php?eid=167825&cid=31&fromval=1&frid=31&seccatid=71&s1=1

Is the original in Arabic as poetically & emphatically taunting about the PoG as translated above?

Posted by lally | August 28, 2014, 11:01 pm
Lilly wants us to believe that HA, Assad and Iran are somehow better than ISIS.

No Lilly, they’re all crap, and the arabs are the ones being forced fed all this shit.

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28975638

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 29, 2014, 12:57 am
Lol lally,

I thought you are better than disseminating enquirer news. Are you bored? Quoting Akhbar via Manar. Now that’s what’s called reliable sources…

I do take that article as the humor piece of the day. You really made me laugh. Grazzie mille. : D

Posted by danny | August 29, 2014, 7:34 am
I was hoping you would enjoy it, Danny.

“the officer replied smiling”

Posted by lally | August 29, 2014, 10:37 am
One would imagine World Leaders to be more informed about what is happening in the Levant. Apparently, they don’t!

Brilliant 🙂

Posted by Ray | August 29, 2014, 11:34 am
This guy would get millions in Hollywood. It is a long time since I have seen such good acting:
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/4449.htm

Posted by AIG | August 29, 2014, 12:54 pm
So the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to Barack Obama on what basis, exactly?

Posted by Ray | August 29, 2014, 1:16 pm
Obama: “Ahh … I really have no clue.”

Posted by Ray | August 29, 2014, 1:20 pm
So the Nobel Peace Prize was awarded to Barack Obama on what basis, exactly?

Ray,

It’s already been established that winning the NPP means about as much as winning a free game of pinball.

AIG,

Reading MEMRI is akin to putting your face in a full toilet bowl. Very unhealthy.

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 29, 2014, 4:06 pm
Normally, I don’t believe Memri. But, this time it’s ridiculous. Hillary still has a child bearing womb? Really? They should use more plausible imagery to be taken little more seriously.

Now, the only thing more ridiculous than Memri is of course Manar. Why aren’t HA thugs in Raqqa defending the few hundred Bashar soldiers paraded naked in the desert? Are they not listening to Faysal al-Qassem’s ridicules? Europe is in very good hands no doubt, Manar.

Today the Wise King warned the world it must act or be prepared to face the consequences of its own procrastination. He also put the Shield of the Peninsula on full alert in order to take proper action when and if needed. Long live the Wise King.

Hehehehehe HA my butt. They’re falling like insects in droves in Zabadani.

Posted by Mustap | August 29, 2014, 5:18 pm
I’m hardly the fertility expert, but I share Mustap’s skepticism that at 66 years of age, Hillary Clinton could have successfully birthed ISIS in her womb.

What I think must have happened was she went high-tech and used follicle stimulating hormones, in-vitro fertilization, somatic cell nuclear transfer human cloning and a small army of younger surrogate mothers to pull the whole ISIS-birthing thing off!

Posted by Samer Nasser | August 29, 2014, 9:15 pm
Skepticism?

The Lord works in mysterious ways.

If Allah willed it, surely it could have happened.

Posted by Gabriel | August 29, 2014, 9:43 pm
No, I don’t think so. Since the poster is the same as the one who posted Zvi Bar’el, then it’s the same idea.

The guy is advocating on behalf of Hilary to make her womb look full of life just like Bar’el was advocating on behalf of BB to make his manhood look larger than life. So what happened is Haaretz got along with Memri and both caused the union of Hilary and BB and because of BB’s cloth stuffed underpants Hilary became fertile once again.

Now both Memri and Haaretz want the surrogates (BB and Assad, both certified terrorists) to be part of an alliance they can never be part of had it not been for the above.

Posted by Mustap | August 29, 2014, 9:45 pm
Iraq’s Sunnis want lollipops, tribal leader tells the BBC’s Jim Muir.

http://m.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28978941

Posted by Gabriel | August 29, 2014, 10:01 pm
This is probably why they reduced their name to one IS instead of two. It’s not because of the borders that no longer exit. The name ISIS doesn’t work in Yemen unless you add a Y so it becomes ISISY,

AQ may soon be part of the past. Congratulations to Bush and his crusaders. They will soon be declared winners,

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/fighters-abandoning-al-qaeda-affiliates-to-join-islamic-state-us-officials-say/2014/08/09/c5321d10-1f08-11e4-ae54-0cfe1f974f8a_story.html

Posted by Mustap | August 29, 2014, 10:27 pm
Allahu Akbar

Posted by Gabriel | August 29, 2014, 11:30 pm
What’s so strange about Hilary? If Allah would offer 72 virgins for any idiot who blows itself up; for you Allah can get the lady preggars!

Here’s a nice reminder to ladies:

“Don’t die a virgin…Terrorists up there are waiting for you”. 😛

Posted by danny | August 30, 2014, 7:38 am
Hahahah

Posted by Gabriel | August 30, 2014, 7:40 am
Gee thanks

Saudi King predicts his funded army will attack the west….

http://news.yahoo.com/saudi-king-warns-west-jihadists-next-target-093701543.html

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 30, 2014, 8:33 am
A little good cop bad cop routine run by the wise king.

Posted by Gabriel | August 30, 2014, 10:51 am
The Egyptian president and friend of the of the wise king has filed a lawsuit against the wise king’s rental militia for trademark infringement and irresponsible use of his name. 😀

Posted by danny | August 30, 2014, 11:51 am
Under directions from his wise majesty, the GCC ministers resolved once and for all the Qatar problem, allowing unified actions to be taken by the GCC in confronting regional challenges,

http://www.naharnet.com/stories/en/145487-gulf-monarchies-resolve-spat-with-qatar

The states acting in support of terrorism (Israel, Syrian, Iran) can never be part of this noble effort. Syria and Iraq may join once they become free of their terrorist regimes. Israel has a long long way to go since terrorism is more deeply institutionalized in its culture and organizational structure.

Posted by Mustap | August 30, 2014, 12:08 pm
Assad’s mockery of the most basic human intelligence:

”
For the better part of three years it had been apparent that Assad’s propaganda was aimed at luring the West into a sordid compact with his regime founded on supposedly shared counterterrorism principles. According to this narrative, his victims, some of them as young as a few months old, were suicide bombers and head-loppers, akin to the fanatics who brought down the World Trade Center and left a crater in the side of the Pentagon………”

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/commentaryanalysis/561677-lies-and-liability-why-the-us-should-target-both-assad-and-the-is-in-syria

Posted by Mustap | August 30, 2014, 12:52 pm
And the classical well rehearsed, very boring and uncreative arsonists offering himself as firefighter is all Assad would hope for. Who’s the more expert at it?

”
So now Assad and his henchmen say they want to be part of the battle against the IS. It’s a perfect example of the arsonist showing up at an uncontrolled blaze posing as a fireman. Obviously, nobody wants to have an uprising against them. But if you must have enemies, the more deranged and terrifying they are, the better. So as long as there is a war in Syria, Assad simply cannot do without the Islamic State or something extremely similar.”

https://now.mmedia.me/lb/en/commentaryanalysis/561536-attacking-the-islamic-state-is-attacking-assad

Posted by Mustap | August 30, 2014, 1:10 pm
Islam has no place in Europe.

Posted by Ray | August 30, 2014, 3:57 pm
Devout Christians have no place in the ME.

Posted by Ray | August 30, 2014, 4:03 pm
Danny’s on a comedic roll.

I like.

Muatapha, are you in the employ of the wise king. I certainly hope that this level of devotion has at least some kickback associated with it.

Posted by Gabriel | August 30, 2014, 8:49 pm
We hate the US, so fight our battles please

A little good cop bad cop routine run by the wise king.

Gabriel,

I think it’s more than “good cop bad cop”. I think it’s a direct threat. Look, ME “foreign policy” has ALWAYS been to coax the US into getting involved in the ME, despite US reluctance.

There are too many examples to mention.

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 30, 2014, 10:57 pm
Imprudent and reckless perhaps, but it’s a Saturday night and QN is on holiday, so I’m going to freely admit that every time I read “Mustapha” or “Mustap” in this blog’s comment section, I remember this horrible, batshit-crazy ‘Queen’ song from 1979:

Posted by Samer Nasser | August 31, 2014, 12:21 am
Samer are you trying to get on the wise king’s payroll? Its subjects are well funded. But you can only wear black.

WTH…Since everything Mustapha is in and it’s a long WE…

Posted by danny | August 31, 2014, 6:25 am
You guys will not get on any royal payroll by playing cheap tricks. Nasser I cannot open your video. Why?

You guys are kidding or what?

Just tell me how much each one of you makes from your own regural 9 to 5 toils or whatever keeps you alive and I’ll tell you the same without lies.

I’m just a regular 9 to 5 guy, and I bet you I make more than anyone of you including the prof. himself. I’m not on any royal payroll. Did I not tell 3issa at one point to get off his butt and do some work instead of eyeing someone else’s wealth? Where is he these days? He seems to have got disappointed by your Lebano lack of manners and pretentious mountainous intellectualism. Or should I say تربية الجرد ?

I just do it to make you guys drink your own venom. And I already said that in a previous comment.

Those who are making rupees are probably the most eager to switch to riyals. But they will only turn to cobras in the end and die in hindustan. Venom only gets you more venom.

And if you’re doing this to relieve yourselves thinking that I will refrain, then you’ll be greatly disappointed

Long live the Wise King.

Posted by Mustap | August 31, 2014, 9:58 am
I work on tips only, on a good day I take home…. “ONE HUNDRED DOLLARS” ( I said that in Dr Evil accent)

Posted by Vulcan | August 31, 2014, 10:15 am
Good. Your first royal cheque is in the mail.

Posted by Mustap | August 31, 2014, 10:33 am
Wow.

Mustafa makes more money than the Prof.

This is cause for tremendous celebration!

Posted by Gabriel | August 31, 2014, 10:37 am
Northern Europe will veer to the extreme right in the next elections and the Union will most likely collapse.

Posted by Ray | August 31, 2014, 10:42 am
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/08/23/opinion/isis-atrocities-started-with-saudi-support-for-salafi-hate.html?_r=0&referrer=

Posted by Gabriel | August 31, 2014, 10:43 am
Gabriel, shut it, I’ll give you half of what’s coming. Let’s all get along now…Long live the wise King 🙂

Posted by Vulcan | August 31, 2014, 10:51 am
Southern Europeans will need to answer for hosting Very Rich Sunni Muslims and doing little else.

Posted by Ray | August 31, 2014, 10:51 am
The UK is neither North or South of Europe but definitely lies independently to West.

Posted by Ray | August 31, 2014, 10:57 am
Ed must have outgrown the wisdom of the wise salafist…

Posted by danny | August 31, 2014, 12:25 pm
Gabby,

How much do the profs make in US of A? maybe the wise poodle can help the cause by cutting another cheque… 😛

Posted by danny | August 31, 2014, 12:27 pm
Really? What are these guys smoking?

“خامساً- تعميم التجربة اللبنانية.
إن التجربة اللبنانية في العيش معاً يُمكن أن تُقدّم للمجتمعات العربية التعددية نموذجاً يُحتذى به. كما أن لبنان المعافى، بانفتاحه وحيويته الفكرية، قد يُصبح مصدر إلهام لعالمٍ عربي متجدد.”

Lebano is the source of inspirartion?

http://www.annahar.com/article/166344-لا-مفاضلة-في-الارهاب-وتحالف-الأقليات-لا-يحمي-المسيحيين

That stuff must be very potent especially when smoked on top of the mountain.

Posted by Mustap | August 31, 2014, 1:28 pm
Mustap,

Earnest attempt to troubleshoot your technical problem with the video here. You provide no information on your setup so I am kinda reduced to guessing. What I suspect is going on is that the video was uploaded to YouTube in “Flash Video” format and you are trying to view it from an iOS device like an iPhone or iPad.

Back in 2007, when Apple first released the iPhone, Steve Jobs made a very aggressive and controversial decision to basically banish Adobe’s Flash Video Player from the iOS ecosystem. His argument at the time was that mobile Internet video shouldn’t be “closed” and should be “open”, and he threw all his weight behind HTML5 video (which I think is built on the mp4 standard, but I’m not certain). He expected others to follow suit in banishing Flash video from their mobile platforms, but no-one did. As far as I know, you can view Flash video files from other smartphones like Android, Windows Phone, etc. You should also be able to view them from any desktop operating system. Granted, I haven’t owned an Apple device since I purchased an iPod Nano way back in 2005, so I don’t know if more recent versions of iOS have softened their stance against Flash video or not. Perhaps others can comment.

Anyway, moving on …

As for whether I was kidding or not, of course I was!

As for how much I earn, rest assured that I work very hard, way longer than just 9 to 5, but I get paid mostly in dirty looks and kicks to the groin!

For someone who hypocritically rails off about “lack of manners”, you should know that for a great many people, aggressively confronting them about their earnings (or lack thereof) would be considered the epitome of rudeness! But whatever, I don’t want to come off as stern or easily-offended!

Lastly, kudos for the colorful and highly evocative imagery in “But they will only turn to cobras in the end and die in hindustan.” I don’t know how or where you come up with this stuff, but I gotta admit, this one made me laugh! At first I didn’t even know what it meant, but later understood it as a dark, snide remark against Indian expatriates in the Gulf. Is that so? Honestly, until this moment, I took it for granted that you were Lebanese, seeing as this is a Lebanese blog and all, but coupled with your vulgar boasting about how rich you are, I’m actually now convinced that you are 100% a Gulfie, perhaps even a Saudi! Congratulations, I guess!

Posted by Samer Nasser | August 31, 2014, 7:24 pm
Samer,

I would like to think that the Iceman (Mustafa) isn’t taking jabs at Indians (or Hindus more specifically) for no apparent reason than to be obnoxious. That said, we can’t really put anything past him.

The more likely reason I can think of is perhaps a previous statement I made that I was working in India for the past little while.

But one never knows.

Posted by Gabriel | August 31, 2014, 8:19 pm
QN,

For those who may be growing tired of playing “pin the tail on the donkey” on your website, Syria Comment offers some interesting posts. One participant there linked to this:

http://www.al-bab.com/blog/2014/august/sickness-that-gave-birth-to-isis.htm#sthash.NDno7wre.Fnt7INeW.dpbs:

Posted by Akbar Palace | August 31, 2014, 8:28 pm
Where do you come from Samer? Outer space??

I can’t even follow you. But thanks for the ios troubleshooting tip.

You realize it was I who was accused of being on a royal payroll. So you think I should just take it with a smile?

Sorry man. It doesn’t work that way here. And why did you think I really want to know how much YOU specifically make? You’ve only been here couple days. What do you know what’s going on here? So you put yourself at the forefront when you were the last one I’m really paying attention to. You see? Everyone understood it and took it with a joke or a grain of salt except YOU.

Just unbelievable!!

It’s even more pathetic that you didn’t even get the thing about Hindustan. You have no clue whatsoever what’s going on here! You just needed someone like a cobra (Gab = Cobra) to tell you what it means? That’s the utmost in gullibility to be educated by who?

That’s what happens when you assume you can be an educator as in your last comment. You get to be educated by the…..

Understand first then jump.

Posted by Mustap | August 31, 2014, 9:15 pm
Akbar Palace,

If playing “Pin the Tail on the Donkey” frustrates you enough to get you off this site and back onto that freak show ‘Syria Comment’ where you presumably came from, then we would have indeed accomplished a great thing around here!

I don’t know what you think you are doing here, but from my vantage point, all it is is slumming and concern-trolling big-time (along with that other idiot AIG). You’ve been doing this for months, for a net, tangible gain of zero. I can’t even detect that either of you has learned anything or changed in any way, let alone developed any real affection for anyone.

You have no real skin in the game outside of your own fortified positions, but the rest of us are sick of the violence, the anxiety, having our minds reduced to mush because of what’s going on in the Arab World. The news and Twitter are running 24/7 coverage and analysis of ISIS and all that other horseshit, so why we have to obsess about it here endlessly without taking any time off for genuine community-, team- and culture-building among presumably fraternal, diasporic people frankly baffles me?

I’ll go further as to state that Elias is wasting his time on this blog and engaging mediocre sacks of shit like us! He is a comparative literature professor! He should be immersed in culture and letters among scholars, not politics and violence among sclerotic, know-nothing, ideological morons!

Posted by Samer Nasser | August 31, 2014, 9:24 pm
Samer,

Just a little QN history for your posting benefit.

Years ago, the Iceman and me were like peas in a pod. Then we got into a little tiff and he ran off.

The event left a void in my life. Or as we would say, my life had no more ‘lizi’ left in it.

So much so I had to scurry off to India to join some Ashrams there to find my balance again.

And lo and behold. The Gods have answered my prayers and here he is again, reborn into a new identity.

This sort of drama you cannot find anywhere else, but at QN.

Posted by Gabriel | August 31, 2014, 9:41 pm
Mustafa,

Samer is new here. Treat the new moniker as a new lease on your virtual social media life. Try and refrain from using adjectives like pathetic to describe other posters. You can’t expect anyone to decipher your gibberish without the proper context.

Be nice. You don’t want the entire community to think you’re an a$$.

Posted by Gabriel | August 31, 2014, 9:50 pm
“Honestly, until this moment, I took it for granted that you were Lebanese, seeing as this is a Lebanese blog and all, but coupled with your vulgar boasting about how rich you are, I’m actually now convinced that you are 100% a Gulfie, perhaps even a Saudi! Congratulations, I guess!”

Sorry, Samer, I missed this last bit of your last affidavit.

Here’s the thing. Never take anything for granted. Having said that, you’re still wrong and your initial taking it for granted was correct I’m Lebanese. If you think it’s vulgar to boast about being rich then that’s your problem. Yes, I’m rich but NOT because I’m Gulfie or Saudi. I earned every penny of it. I neither inherited it nor broke any law earning it.

Do you have any problem with that? When someone accuse me of being on a royal payroll, I’ll have no qualms boasting about what I’m capable of, even if the self righteous think it’s vulgar.

If you have problem with Gulfies and/or Saudis then that too is your own problem and will never become mine.

Now, the question you should ask yoursel is this. Did I really ask myself what you may hapoen to be? The answer is NO. And I wouldn’t bother to ask or even speculate about.

Just so we make things very clear.

Posted by Mustap | August 31, 2014, 9:55 pm
Cobra,

You’re still in the dark about who I am and feeding the new guy wrong information. But, that’s your own problem and his of course,

Frankly, I don’t care what you think. And as long as you keep thinking what you think then I’ll be at an advantage.

So keep doing it.

And don’t think that patronizing a newcomer will even help you.

After a while, he’ll discover you’re fake.

At least I’m telling it to him as it is.

I like the guy and want him to be well informed unlike you.

Posted by Mustap | August 31, 2014, 10:01 pm
Be nice ya Mustafa.

Posted by Gabriel | August 31, 2014, 10:47 pm
Guys,

Thanks for the kind words but I’m not really that new around here. I’ve been reading this blog for a while, more as a two-in-one distraction from work and self-inflicted exercise in frustration than anything else. And frankly, I don’t really get what’s going on here. You guys all seem like a bunch of old people in their twilight years bickering endlessly in a nursing home. It’s hostile. It’s rancorous. It’s complicated. I just don’t get it! I don’t get what benefit gets accrued to anyone! I realize there’s somewhat of a cultural barrier here and a lot that I don’t know, hence that’s what I’m trying to overcome by actively commenting.

Also, I realize that commenting under my real name affords you guys some indication of who I am, but that’s incidental on my part and not by design. I do it only to respect the blog owner, in this case Elias Muhanna. If I trust that I know who he is, I feel obliged to reciprocate, come what may! That’s really all it is!

Finally, I don’t get how relaxed people seem to be around here. It’s probably just acclimation. In contrast, I feel I’m freaking out and rapidly losing what little patience I had with what’s happening in the Arab World, with my mood in turn seeming to be in endless freefall! The problem is, this has already been going on for far too long, and all indications are that it’s getting worse, not better!

Posted by Samer Nasser | August 31, 2014, 10:50 pm
Samer,

I also use my real name here.

This blog is a mix of good discussions and once in a while we veer into this senseless drivel.

And if we sound like a bunch of people in their twilight years, that would be quite an accurate description.

For the most part we are like old married couples. We all know where each one stands in terms of views, and unfortunately there is a lot of argument rehashing.

Posted by Gabriel | August 31, 2014, 11:07 pm
http://dailystar.com.lb/News/Lebanon-News/2014/Aug-30/269064-lebanons-justice-minister-asks-prosecutor-to-punish-isis-flag-burners.ashx#axzz3Br3vQ4Gt

Ashraf Rifi, Vice Caliph / Emir of Lebanon under the Auspices of Caliph Baghdadi

Posted by Tamer K | August 31, 2014, 11:48 pm
So PBS (Public Broadcasting Station) broadcasts this weekend show called POV (Point of View) here in the US where they air obscure documentaries from around the world, usually on topics that might seem on the fringe. I’ve known about this show for years but never tuned in to any of their weekend broadcasts, mostly deeming my Saturday night time way too precious for this kind of thing.

Except last night. Last night, I was glued to my couch from 9 pm until 10:30 pm. And I was absolutely engrossed.

They aired a documentary called “A World Not Ours”, apparently a line taken from a Ghassan Kanafani literary work, about a Palestinian refugee who grew up with his family in the “Ain El Remmaneh” refugee camp in Southern Lebanon, before emigrating to Denmark.

Now PBS has its staunch critics in the US, who argue on libertarian, ideological grounds that it possesses a debilitating, liberal bias and that the government should not be in the broadcasting business. Never mind that this ideological talk is mostly garbage political interference (most of the PBS budget is raised via active memberships, fund drives and philanthropies), but the reality is that a documentary like this will NEVER air on any other US-based channel among the hundreds bundled in a typical cable TV package (ironically, foreign public broadcasters do stuff like this all the time and are thankfully available in a typical bundle).

Anyway, enough of my babbling. The link is included below. If you are in the US and can access it, WATCH IT NOW. If you’re outside the US, find a way to VPN into it or whatever. It is so beautiful, so touching, so humane, so tragic. It will provide a window into a world that I bet you have never seen:

http://www.pbs.org/pov/aworldnotours/full.php#.VAPoR2Mx3aI

Posted by Samer Nasser | August 31, 2014, 11:53 pm
Oops! Got the name of the refugee camp wrong in the previous post. It’s “Ain El Helwe”, not “Ain El Remmaneh”.

Posted by Samer Nasser | September 1, 2014, 12:13 am
You’ve been doing this for months, for a net, tangible gain of zero.

Samer,

What is your “net, tangible gain”? Do you get college credits for posting? I get free Hanukkah candles.

Posted by Akbar Palace | September 1, 2014, 12:44 am
“Shalom Sesame” my favorite show on PBS, also you gotta love “Star Hustler” with Jack Horkheimer.
Ahhh the good ol’ days

Posted by Vulcan | September 1, 2014, 6:33 am

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