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The Rolling Stones of Morocco: Nass el-Ghiwane

A million years ago, I spent some time living in Morocco hanging out with Nass el-Ghiwane, the great shaabi ensemble that more or less invented the modern Moroccan popular song. I wrote about the experience in an article for Transition magazine:

Nass el Ghiwane debuted in 1971, when Omar Sayyed was twenty-four years old. All five members sang, often in chorus, and the group played a motley assortment of traditional instruments in untraditional combinations: the sentir, a gut-stringed bass lute; banjo; kettle-drums, frame drums, tambourines, and cymbals. The plaintive melodies and chants brought to mind ‘aita, a popular style associated with the shikhat – independent women of sometimes ill repute – but also melhoun, a medieval Moroccan oral tradition with roots in the courtly arts of Moorish Spain.

The group’s hypnotic rhythms borrowed from the mystagogic cadences of the Sufi brotherhoods, especially the Gnawa – descendents of West African slaves, whose ritual exorcisms entailed what might be the original trance music. The banjo — a grittier African alternative to the Arab zither — reinforced the sense that this music, which was unlike anything ever heard in Morocco, was in its own reckless way a summation of everything ever heard in Morocco. It was a self-consciously nationalist sound, new-fangled and old-fashioned at the same time.

Out of this ferment, the members of Nass el Ghiwane emerged as custodians of Morocco’s cultural heritage, curators of its traveling show. Their songs were full of references to old poems, proverbs, medieval saints,and mystics.The fact that they sang in colloquial Moroccan rather than Egyptian Arabic affirmed this tip- of-the-tongue familiarity.

Recently, I recorded a radio segment about the group with Joseph Braude (a writer similarly smitten by the sound of el-Ghiwane), so I thought I’d post it here along with some other worthwhile reading/listening.

Discussion

45 thoughts on “The Rolling Stones of Morocco: Nass el-Ghiwane

  1. Lucky to have some of the recordings <3.

    Posted by Ritva Lehtinen | November 24, 2012, 10:06 am
  2. Moroccan Arabic at its best. My uncle told me once that they inaugurated a kind of Woodstock-like era in Morocco. They had and still have a pretty wide audience in Algeria too.

    I would say they are more Parliament Funkadelic than Rolling Stones.

    Posted by 3issa | November 25, 2012, 7:53 am
  3. Anyone want to chime in on Mursi’s decree making him “Supreme Leader” of Egypt??

    I was thinking he was going to make Egypt a “real” deomcracy. I guess I was wrong…

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 26, 2012, 11:25 am
  4. lonely and bored zionist alert

    Posted by 3issa | November 26, 2012, 6:14 pm
  5. Do you speak Hebrew?

    Posted by 3issa | November 26, 2012, 6:50 pm
  6. 3issa,

    No, but I speak Khazar!

    Anyway, I was wondering if you could report on all the demonstrations throughout the Arab World due to the indiscriminate bombings the Baathists carried out in Syria?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20491697

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 26, 2012, 7:58 pm
  7. Ooooof.

    Shoo muz3ej.

    AP: Dude, the Arabs are bunch of hypocrites. They kill their own people, which necessarily means that the Americans and Israelis should have open license to kill them too.

    Clearly, this is the only topic of conversation that interests you. You now have our collective concession to the point.

    Now Eff-Off.

    Posted by Gabriel | November 27, 2012, 2:13 pm
  8. As usual, you miss APs point. He wants to understand why the life of an Arab killed by Jews is more important than that of an Arab killed by other Arabs. The way I see it, actions count much louder than words, and basically both lives are worth the same, which is not very much unfortunately based on the Arab response to both Syria and Gaza. There is a lot of talk and very little doing.

    Posted by AIG | November 27, 2012, 2:46 pm
  9. They kill their own people, which necessarily means that the Americans and Israelis should have open license to kill them too.

    Gabriel, et al,

    There is no “open license” to kill or murder anyone. I just want to why the Arabs are giving Assad an open-licence to kill Syrians, where they are now saying 40,000 have seen untimely deaths. I saw huge demonstrations against Israel (where about 160 were killed), where are they against Assad?

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 27, 2012, 3:26 pm
  10. AIG:

    I didn’t miss AP’s pointless point.

    It is rhetorical at best, and insidious at worst.

    Given the ease with which he brings up 160 deaths, and his nonchalant attitude towards it, I suspect it is the latter. He doesn’t get the benefit of the doubt here.

    AP:

    Stop bringing up the 40000 until you bring supporting documentation on who killed who. If you don’t know, don’t quote the number. Also: It’s taken almost a year and a half to kill 40000. The Israelis managed to kill 160 in a few days.

    If they continued at that same rate for the year and a half, they would have far exceeded those numbers.

    Enough is enough, and eff-off will you.

    Posted by Gabriel | November 27, 2012, 3:43 pm
  11. Of course you missed the point. He has been explicitly making it for a long time. He is not asking for a license to kill as you are trying to portray this. Nothing insidious. The number that AP is quoting is from Syrian organizations. If you have a better estimate for the number of dead, let us know. In any case, do the math, Assad has killed more per day than Israel, not that it matters. What matters is that the Arab world is not in any hurry to put a stop to the killing. I agree with AP that this is a total failure on the part of the progressive and leftist elements in the Arab world which on paper claim to be most sensitive to loss of human lives and trashing of whole cities and also claim to hold “universal” values.

    Posted by AIG | November 27, 2012, 4:17 pm
  12. Gabriel,

    Maybe, AP is giving a critique on the hopelessness of the Arab left and progressives in failing to counter the rise of Islamist movements and thus calling for an awakening?

    Then again, maybe he finally found a perfect opportunity to justify Israeli aggression. ;p

    Posted by Maverick | November 27, 2012, 4:58 pm
  13. Maverick,

    Is the issue in Syria the Islamist awakening? Is that the main reason for the daily killings? I don’t think so. But I agree about the Arab left and progressives. They have failed in confronting Islamism as well as just plain old murder as in Syria. You could say that confronting Islamism is not in the cards as they do not have the required votes. And in fact, today in Egypt people are confronting Islamism. But stopping the senseless killing in Syria? What is the excuse for not taking much more vigorous action in this matter?

    Posted by AIG | November 27, 2012, 5:09 pm
  14. Arab Anger*

    Maverick,

    I’d be happy to discuss with you my motives. It’s not that difficult, it’s not a secret, or anything under-handed. I am an American Jew with who happens to be pro-Israel and sensitive to news concerning Israel. If you don’t know what that means, think of an Arab who is pro-Palestinian.

    Gabriel, to me, came off as a very well educated person with his writing style, and I originally though he was a “moderate”. What does moderate mean? Someone who can accept the State of Israel is MY definition. TO me, if you can’t accept a Jewish State or a Palestinian State, you are NOT a moderate. Still with me.

    When I see thousands demonstrating against Israel (in Egypt for example), I wonder why they don’t do the same for their brethren in Syria. Why this FOCUS on MY people, the Jewish People??? I take offense at the hypocrisy!

    Anyway, after a few cyber-hours chatting with Gabriel, I’ve decided Gabriel is NOT a moderate (write now I count only one on this website: Danny [sorry Danny]).

    My discussions with Gabriel recently showed me that Gabriel employs some sort of moral equivalency between Israel and the US vs. the Arab ME. For example: Israel and the US kill just as many people as Arabs stop “whining” (I’m paraphrasing). The US taxpayers waste more money on Israel than they do propping up Arab governments.

    For example, Gabriel stated:

    It doesn’t change the fact that America caused the deaths of 100s of thousands of Iraqis.

    Posted by Gabriel | November 18, 2012, 9:11 pm

    http://qifanabki.com/2012/10/24/was-michel-samaha-set-up-by-wissam-al-hassan/#comment-39960

    The IRaqi Body Count website differs SUBSTANTIALLY with Gabriel:

    Methods and Findings

    We analyzed the Iraq Body Count database of 92,614 Iraqi civilian direct deaths from armed violence occurring from March 20, 2003 through March 19, 2008, of which Unknown perpetrators caused 74% of deaths (n = 68,396), Coalition forces 12% (n = 11,516), and Anti-Coalition forces 11% (n = 9,954). We analyzed the subset of 60,481 civilian deaths from 14,196 short-duration events of lethal violence to link individual civilian deaths to events involving perpetrators and their methods. One-third of civilian violent death was from extrajudicial executions by Unknown perpetrators; quadratic regression shows these deaths progressively and disproportionately increased as deaths from other forms of violence increased across Iraq’s governorates.

    Conclusions

    Most Iraqi civilian violent deaths during 2003–2008 of the Iraq war were inflicted by Unknown perpetrators, primarily through extrajudicial executions that disproportionately increased in regions with greater numbers of violent deaths. Unknown perpetrators using suicide bombs, vehicle bombs, and mortars had highly lethal and indiscriminate effects on the Iraqi civilians they targeted.

    http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pmed.1000415

    Feel free to chime in…

    *reserved for Zionists only

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 27, 2012, 5:18 pm
  15. Gabriel,

    Here are the estimates on civilian dead in Syria. They FAR outnumber civilian deaths caused by the war Hamas initiated against Israel.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_civil_war

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 27, 2012, 5:31 pm
  16. well said AP, that is a lesson for Maverick who dared to mention “Israeli agression”.

    Posted by 3issa | November 27, 2012, 6:00 pm
  17. hey btw AP, you mates the “djeeHadeez” are quite active against Assad isn’t it? So are these Arabs good for you?

    Posted by 3issa | November 27, 2012, 6:02 pm
  18. Maverick:

    AP is scouring the net looking for Uncle Toms in Arab oriented blogs.

    Poor Vulcan has apparently been demoted from “Moderate” to “Non-Moderate”.

    As for me, supportive of the existence of Israel, apparently I am a Zionist (according to 3issa), who is a Non-Moderate Arab (according to Akhouna AP). Any more labeling, and I will have an identity crisis.

    I may soon have to come out of that proverbial Joo-hating closet singing a re-worded version of Jerry Herman’s “I am what I am”.

    A self-loathing non-Moderate Arab turned anti-Zionist Zionist.

    AP:

    Khalas ba2a. We already told you the Arabs are hypocrites. 7el 3an teezi. Kis im el shaghlee.

    Posted by Gabriel | November 27, 2012, 6:09 pm
  19. lol I missed that one, Danny is the Moderate! LOL you daaa maaaan….

    I Seek Refuge In God The Almighty From The Moderation Of This World

    Posted by 3issa | November 27, 2012, 6:12 pm
  20. R.I.P Batma

    Posted by 3issa | November 27, 2012, 6:14 pm
  21. Back on topic.

    Thanks QN always for being a beacon of cultural knowledge.

    While the music was god-awful to me, I do appreciate these posts.

    Posted by Gabriel | November 27, 2012, 6:16 pm
  22. Ustez Gabi, lay khaleek, if you are not zionist then I stand corrected.
    If you are cool with Israel as a fact on the ground, then, 3afwan…but you are a zayouniste :-)

    Posted by 3issa | November 27, 2012, 6:20 pm
  23. AP:

    http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

    110,110 – 120,293

    Further analysis of the WikiLeaks’ Iraq War Logs
    may add 12,000 civilian deaths.

    I formally apologize for rounding up.

    I should have written 100,000+, for this 2nd Gulf war.

    Then again, if you add up the First Gulf war, the years of crippling sanctions that Iraq went through:
    http://www.unicef.org/newsline/99pr29.htm

    then maybe I shouldn’t be so sorry.

    It is clear that you will use whatever excuse is handy, whenever the situation calls for it. You have yet to concede in these forums whether or not you think the American government was “hypocritical” all these years they armed and supported Saddam (when it was convenient for them, and in their “regional” interest).

    You have yet to weigh in on your feelings about America’s provision to Saddam of the means he used to gas the Kurds of the north.

    Perhaps a detailed AP commentary on the following is long due:

    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/saddam/kurds/cron.html

    As well as your feelings on this particular detail, found in:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_attack

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq_during_the_Iran%E2%80%93Iraq_war#Chemical_and_biological_exports

    If you are here to have a serious discussion about “Hypocrisy”, let’s start here. As I wrote umpteen times, the fact that the Arabs are Hypocrites has been conceded long ago.

    Let’s move on and start exploring the other Hypocrisies.

    3issa:

    I am tres Zayounist, and proud of it!

    Posted by Gabriel | November 27, 2012, 6:45 pm
  24. Re: Wiki leak on Syria.

    Estimates of deaths in the conflict vary, with figures ranging from 40,000 to 52,545.[35][63]

    One problem has been determining the number of “armed combatants” who have died, due to some sources counting rebel fighters who were not defectors as civilians.[59][323][324] At least half of those killed have been estimated to be combatants from both sides, including more than 7,200 government soldiers.

    Also, the conflict has been apparently going on since March 2011. Which works out, with the higher figure less combatants/soldiers deaths, and assuming that, as per the Wiki description “at least”, that conservatively: There were 30 to at most 42 Civilian deaths/day.

    Of those 30-42: You don’t know:

    1) Which were killed by the government
    2) Which were killed by anti-government forces
    3) Which were killed by “Unknown Forces”.

    The conflict in Gaza lasted less than a week, and it led to, according to you: 160 deaths.

    In a matter of 6 days, Israel was able to kill around: 27 people/day.

    Perhaps the lesson you should take away from this is that the Israeli death machine is not any kinder. And don’t presume that you can come to these forums and pretty up the numbers.

    A dead child is a dead child.

    And you should be full of Jewish American Anger for each and every one of those dead Palestinian children.

    Full stop.

    Posted by Gabriel | November 27, 2012, 7:12 pm
  25. “And you should be full of Jewish American Anger for each and every one of those dead Palestinian children.”

    Who cares how people feel about an issue? It is what people do that counts. You can repeat hollow universalist tropes as much as you want, but the fact still stands that 40,000 Syrians have been killed and Aleppo, Homs etc. have been trashed and the response from Arab leftists and progressives has been mostly idle words. They are not even a factor in what is going on or in attempting to bring the violence to a stop. They can’t even formulate a coherent strategy and are bickering among themselves. The Syrian catastrophe just shows how bankrupt this world view is. Not only that, I do not see any discussion on what to do the day after Assad is gone. How is the Arab left going to help rebuild Syria and entrench democracy? Without any forward planning the islamists are going to have another cake walk.

    Let’s be a clear also, a dead child is not a dead child, meaning not all dead children are the same. I care more about my children than I care about other people’s children. And Israelis care more about Israeli kids just as Palestinians care more about Palestinian kids.

    Posted by AIG | November 27, 2012, 7:58 pm
  26. AIG,

    I do understand the underlying message you and AP are trying to send, It is pretty obvious. Also sickening, if you are an Arab trying to make sense of it all. so when AP pushes the envelope by constantly reminding us ailing Arabs that we are hypocrites for not demonstrating loud enough against fellow Arabs in comparison with demos against Israel, and so tries to justify Israeli aggression and makes it out to be minute in comparison to other localized aggression, it becomes kinda patronizing and tiresome, hence Gabriel’s outburst…..and then there’s the search for who holds the most objectivity. It can be entertaining though. :)

    Posted by Maverick | November 27, 2012, 7:59 pm
  27. (skipping Gabriel and AIGs posts above to take care Maverick’s response first)

    I do understand the underlying message you and AP are trying to send, It is pretty obvious.

    It’s nice to be understood.

    Also sickening, if you are an Arab trying to make sense of it all. so when AP pushes the envelope by constantly reminding us ailing Arabs that we are hypocrites for not demonstrating loud enough against fellow Arabs in comparison with demos against Israel, and so tries to justify Israeli aggression and makes it out to be minute in comparison to other localized aggression, it becomes kinda patronizing and tiresome, hence Gabriel’s outburst…..and then there’s the search for who holds the most objectivity. It can be entertaining though. :)M

    Maverick,

    I know I push buttons. And there is a reason I do it. I used to participate on a website, “The Jewish-Palestinian Encounter”, which was made up of mostly American and Israeli liberals who always found fault with the GOI. So I understand the concept of pushing buttons. However, it is my opinion that the Arab World is not going to change except from within. If you guys don’t like something in the Arab world, it is you guys, and only you guys that can change things. You sbeak the language, you know the customs, you know the mentality. I know a little – enough to get into trouble.

    Right now we have (IMHO) and LARGE group of Egyptians young and secular not rioting against the despot Mubarak, but against the Islamist who wants to be a despot Mursi. I think this demonstration is important. I tried to be objective about Mursi and I claimed a number of times on this website that I though he was doing fairly well. He seemed tough. He certainly wasn’t a “Zionist Puppet”. He seemed to understand the importance of policing the Sinai. But this recent powergrab is troubling. Why? And what about a Constitution first?? Just my thoughts.

    On the issue of comparing Israeli crimes and arab crimes, I am willing to discuss each in great detail. As you know, I take every case individually. I do not agree with Gabriel’s assertion that because the US and Israel has killed civilians it is just as bad as X, Y and Z in the Arab world. Then there is the issue of hypocrisy. You want to call Israel a “terrorist state” (Turkey’s claim) due to the Israeli retaliation of 1000+ missiles fired from Gaza, fine, then tell us why you haven’t called Syria, Libya, Iran, Lebanon, Egypt and Turkey a “terrorist state”, under circumstances that were less threatening than hundreds of indiscriminately fired missiles.

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 27, 2012, 10:19 pm
  28. Gabriel the Moderate Extremist

    Maverick,

    Here are a few snippets from our thread of last week, just to get you up to speed:

    Danny:

    Gabriel,

    Make your point! What is your point? Do you think Hamas is right in bombing Israel? Did they take over Gaza in a military purge or as the gullible and cute lally suggests in her revisionist story line:”You do know that Hamas won the election and they fought off an American-backed coup attempt in Gaza, don’t you?” Posted by danny | November 17, 2012, 7:22 am

    Lally:

    Ahhhhhh Danny me boy, come follow me deep into the weeds of the historic debacle:

    “The [Elliot] Abrams program was initially conceived in February of 2006… (Arab Conspiracy Theory 101) Posted by lally | November 17, 2012, 1:27 pm

    Gabriel:

    However, it does take two to tango. And regarding the latest conflict, it seems, from the sequence of events that Israel did start that ball rolling with the assassination of whatever-his-name-is.
    Posted by Gabriel | November 19, 2012, 12:29 pm

    Of course Gabriel is a factual walking nightmare. Here are the facts:

    http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=20&x_article=2326

    And then 5 Questions showing the Gabriel’s blame of the usual suspects:

    1) Is it really true that America has been the vanguard of Democracy and Freedom?
    2) Is it really true that America has not only acted out of its own self interest
    3) Are the Arabs really more hypocritical than the Americans?
    4) Why have the deaths in Syria caused by Bashar offended you more than the deaths in Iraq caused by your government?
    5) What would you do if you were a Palestinian living in an open-air prison and your babies were killed with Israel’s massive fire power?

    Posted by Gabriel | November 21, 2012, 7:11 pm

    My answers followed. Didn’t take a whole lot of thought of course…

    http://qifanabki.com/2012/10/24/was-michel-samaha-set-up-by-wissam-al-hassan/

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 27, 2012, 11:04 pm
  29. Our resident “brain trust” asks:

    Is it really true that America has been the vanguard of Democracy and Freedom?

    Yes, and it looks as if there are more and more arabs who want an American-Style democracy like those in Egypt today:

    “The people want to bring down the regime,” marchers chanted, echoing slogans used in last year’s protests.

    “We don’t want a dictatorship again. The Mubarak regime was a dictatorship. We had a revolution to have justice and freedom,” protester Ahmed Husseini was quoted as saying by Reuters news agency.

    Journalists, lawyers and opposition figures – including Nobel Peace prize laureate Mohammed ElBaradei- joined Tuesday’s rally,

    “The main demand is to withdraw the constitutional declaration,” said Amr Moussa, a former Arab League chief who has joined the opposition.

    Protests were also held in Alexandria and other cities.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-20514011

    Lala, Threesa,

    Are you with these protesters? Why or why not?

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 27, 2012, 11:44 pm
  30. “January-November 2012

    Between Jan. 1, 2012 and Nov. 5, 2012, 674 rockets are fired from Gaza into Israel.”

    AP.. Perhaps you can take a cue from your buddy AIG. Last I recall, he said many eons ago that the blockade of Tiran was Casus Belli.

    Of course, blockading Gaza for years, and leaving the Palestinians in an outdoor penitentiary is Stamped Kosher.

    The Palestinians, unlike the Israelis, have no grounds for Casus belli.

    Tell me AP. How many Israelis died from those 674 rockets?

    Posted by Gabriel | November 28, 2012, 1:38 am
  31. I leave you kids alone for a weeks and now everyone is labeling everyone else “moderate” or “non-moderate”? Is that what the level of discussion has stooped down to?
    I miss Ghassan and the more level-headed “moderate” voices around here. QN’s been sparse too…

    All we have left are two sides who obviously will see things from their perspective (and why shouldn’t they?) and then insist on throwing labels on the other side who happens to see things from a different perspective.

    Sometimes, it helps to look at absolutes. ie. 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

    Killing innocent human beings in Syria is evil.
    Killing innocents in Gaza is evil.
    Killing innocents in Israel is evil.

    There is no need to compare or contrast or measure the 2 (or 3) in a “mine’s bigger than yours” fashion.

    As a human being, first and foremost, I take offense at any loss of life. Period.

    There does not need to be an equivalency or a comparison. Each is its own act. Says who that we get to compare and contrast that this or that killing act is “better” than the other because of such and such circumstances?

    And yes. I agree with AP. Arabs are hypocrites for getting all worked up about Israel killing Palestinians, but staying mum on Syria, Lebanon, or anywhere else.
    And that has nothing to do with anything else. That does not excuse Israel for killing Palestinians. Nor does it excuse Hamas lobbing rockets at Israel. Nor does it excuse Assad killing Syrians. Nor does it excuse Syrian rebels from killing fellow Syrians.
    What’s one got to do with the other?

    Posted by Bad Vilbel | November 28, 2012, 2:18 am
  32. Perhaps you can take a cue from your buddy AIG. Last I recall, he said many eons ago that the blockade of Tiran was Casus Belli.

    Gabriel,

    You keep moving your starting point. You said that the Israelis started the conflict by killing a lead Hamas terrorist. When I showed you that missiles and bombs were going off from Gaza all throughout 2012, you now tell us about the blockade.

    So who is at fault? It would seem to me an objective observer would see Hamas’s charter, that the Israelis walked away from the terrortory and basically left Gaza up to the Palestinians to govern it. There was NO blockade when Israel left Gaza, but there were always missile firings.

    So what did Hamas do? The top priority is not to better the life of the Palestinians they “govern”, their priority is to continue a war they cannot win with Israel. So if you have to blame Israel in this case, it’s a no-brainer that shows how extremist you really are.

    Sometimes, it helps to look at absolutes. ie. 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

    Killing innocent human beings in Syria is evil.
    Killing innocents in Gaza is evil.
    Killing innocents in Israel is evil

    Bad Vibel,

    Again, I understand your heart, but is this war with Hamas really necessary? Tell us what you would do if you were the Israeli PM and 1500 missiles were flown fandomly into Israeli population centers. Some war are justified, and some are not. Assad’s hold on his un-elected thrown is NOT justified. Ousting another un-elected murderous despot like Saddam Hussein via UNSC 1441 IS justified. Responding to random rocket fire IS justified as every country has the right to self-defense.

    There does not need to be an equivalency or a comparison. Each is its own act.

    Bad Vibel,

    Unfortunately, every civilian death is NOT a war crime. Shooting an unarmed person at point blank range is a war crime. Burying a combatant/non-combatant alive IS a war crime. Firing a missile indiscriminately into a population center is a war crime. Setting a bomb off on a bus IS a war crime. Firing missiles from within a populated area IS a war crime. Returning fire toward the location of a missile launch is NOT a war crime. Firing a missile at a combatant who is not near any civilian is NOT a war crime.

    And yes. I agree with AP. Arabs are hypocrites for getting all worked up about Israel killing Palestinians, but staying mum on Syria, Lebanon, or anywhere else.

    Thanks. I now count 2 moderates here on QN;)

    Any more?

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 28, 2012, 8:15 am
  33. Please excuse the hundreds of typos

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 28, 2012, 8:16 am
  34. BV,

    Exactly. It seems emotions have gotten the best of ANY point of discussion…Murder is murder! All this “resistance” related crap about justifying creating misery and mayhem and declaring “victory” has more than wore thin!

    AP. No such thing as moderate or not. I believe in the existence of Israel & Palestine. I believe that all people should have the same human rights and conditions to coexist and live. Hamas & HA (when they launch wars or lob rockets…) are to be considered as neighborhood dark alley hoodlums. Mafiosi does fit the label.

    I ask the lala land commentators to explain to me what benefits did Hamas deliver to the people in Gaza in the past month…and to declare “victory”. I am sick and tired of these leaders who seem to be on purple Haze and more so the sheeple who just keep on smoking the cow dunk!!

    Posted by danny | November 28, 2012, 9:02 am
  35. I believe that all people should have the same human rights and conditions to coexist and live.

    Danny,

    Me too. I agree with your post 100%. Thanks. What a waste of time, money, energy and LIVES…

    I’m ready to discuss the protests in Egypt if anyone is interested…

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 28, 2012, 9:35 am
  36. AP, I want to be in too. How to apply for the Moderate job ?

    Visit Yad Vashem? Read Oriana Fallaci? Vote in the US? Glorify T.E. Lawrence? Enjoy Fareed Zakaria? Enjoy Salman Rushdie?….. can I still respect Ezz Ad Deen Qassam? or maybe Georges Habache?

    Posted by 3issa | November 28, 2012, 10:00 am
  37. I take offense to the fact that i have not been recognized as an extremist long ago.

    From now on, i want to be addressed as Grand AyatollahVulcan (Peace Be Upon Him.)

    Posted by Grand Ayatollah Vulcan PBUH | November 28, 2012, 10:20 am
  38. 3issa;

    Jalouse :P

    Posted by danny | November 28, 2012, 10:30 am
  39. AP:

    Stay focused. Whatever else you may believe, you are NOT as good as AIG at redirecting.

    The Palestinians and the Israelis have been in a conflict for 50 years+. If your idea to argue away the “Israel started this latest round” is to post to a link telling me how many “rockets-that-killed-no one” Palestinians fired since January 2012, then you are barking up the wrong tree.

    When I say “the latest round”, it ought to be obvious what is meant. What is meant is the week long conflict where Israel bombarded Gaza, and where the Palestinians were lobbing missiles and what have you on Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. That is what the escalation was.

    And yes THAT escalation was in fact started by the assassination of the Hamas commander.

    Posted by Gabriel | November 28, 2012, 10:31 am
  40. Vulcan…

    looooooooooooooooooooool

    Posted by Gabriel | November 28, 2012, 10:32 am
  41. AP, I want to be in too. How to apply for the Moderate job ?

    Threesa,

    Step 1: Accept the State of Israel, accept the rights of Palestinians and support a peaceful, final negotiated settlement. Not that difficult.

    Step 2: Stop blaming the US and Israel for everything that ails the ME. Support freedom and democracy, not despotism.

    Am I asking to much?

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 28, 2012, 10:46 am
  42. Whatever else you may believe, you are NOT as good as AIG at redirecting.

    Gabriel,

    I’ll never be as good as AIG. I understand my limitations.;)

    Posted by Akbar Palace | November 28, 2012, 10:48 am
  43. Thanks everybody for the compliments :) back handed or not.
    I’m still interested in hearing how the progressive and leftist forces in the Arab world and its diaspora are organizing to stop the bloodshed in Syria and help Syria eventually rebuild. If Syria becomes a failed state with a prolonged sectarian civil war, it seems to me that this would be a humanitarian crisis that dwarfs anything we have seen so far in the middle east.

    Posted by AIG | November 28, 2012, 12:52 pm
  44. Danny,

    Jalouse sehr sehr Jalouse! But look here I’m gonna make it :

    AP,

    Step 1: Amen – I’ll fight to get the Israeli citizenship
    Step 2: Amen – I’ll stop being hypocrite and wash away the Arab in me

    please, please, please….the moderate stamp!

    long live Palestine, free and eternal in the face of the racist jewish colonizers

    Posted by 3issa | November 28, 2012, 4:11 pm

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